arlsmazdaspeed
Member
call mazda corp and talk to the head of serivce and they will help you, I had a lsd and motor replaced at no cost, by talking to them u might get something done.
Blew My Engine!!!! Pix too!
- Thread starter EmRidMSP
- Start date
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- MP5
the fastest and easiest way to get things done is to talk to someone high up in the mazda corporation.......
Anyone have a name of someone I could talk to for the southwestern United States? Regional Manager? Service Chief?
After consulting a few friends, I have decided to go this route and in this order:
1) Show up at the dealership with 50+ gallons of used motor that has accumulated in the garage from mine, and friends oil changes. If they don't take that, I'll just dump it on the counter. lol
2) Call up District Manager and tell him my plight. If that doesn't work, tell him about my buddy who is a mechanic for Mazda who tells me today he would love to come testify to the weakness of the motor's internals. Then remind him that anyone else who has had a motor blow for similar reasons and had to pay, would have to re-imbursed.... Ahem... what I meant to say was "Class Action."
3) If THAT doesn't work, have my lawyer send him a letter notifying the DM that he will need to appear in court because I will be sueing Mazda.
I really don't WANT to do all that. I'm really not a dick and I hate being "that guy" unless I'm really being screwed - as in right now. I don't want to sue and I'll be more than civil if they'll live up to their promise of a warranty. So if you guys have someone you have dealt with in the past who was pleasent, or a friend, I'd be more than happy to be pleasent right back.
Unless they piss me off. lol
After consulting a few friends, I have decided to go this route and in this order:
1) Show up at the dealership with 50+ gallons of used motor that has accumulated in the garage from mine, and friends oil changes. If they don't take that, I'll just dump it on the counter. lol
2) Call up District Manager and tell him my plight. If that doesn't work, tell him about my buddy who is a mechanic for Mazda who tells me today he would love to come testify to the weakness of the motor's internals. Then remind him that anyone else who has had a motor blow for similar reasons and had to pay, would have to re-imbursed.... Ahem... what I meant to say was "Class Action."
3) If THAT doesn't work, have my lawyer send him a letter notifying the DM that he will need to appear in court because I will be sueing Mazda.
I really don't WANT to do all that. I'm really not a dick and I hate being "that guy" unless I'm really being screwed - as in right now. I don't want to sue and I'll be more than civil if they'll live up to their promise of a warranty. So if you guys have someone you have dealt with in the past who was pleasent, or a friend, I'd be more than happy to be pleasent right back.
Unless they piss me off. lol
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
EmRidMSP said:
Any type of motor failure for any vehicle they will ask for oil change recipets. If you don't have them you have an uphill battle that very few people have won. You need to show that you kept your end of the bargin (maintenance) so they will keep their end of the bargin (warranty).
The last thing you want to do is piss someone off. If you cannot prove you have kept maintenance up to date, then they have no obligation to warranty your motor.
This is very true. However, any mechanic worth his salt should be able to look at the motor and tell you whether or not it has had a decent amount of oil changes. When I went up to the dealership yesterday, the service tech I needed wasn't there, but I went out to look at the engine.
There was a hole the size of my fist in the "rear" of the block. As well, they had taken off the valve cover. There was no evidence of scoring. Everything inside the engine looked well-lubricated and there was no evidence of excessive wear and tear (other than the exploded rod). It looked like an engine SHOULD look at 43,000 miles.
But get this: The dealership had searched my car. What was laying out on the passenger seat was a time slip from a local drag strip that, while I do race at, I also volunteer for. It literally wasn't even mine! But everything else in the interior of the car had been thrown to the back seat and the glove box was completely re-arranged. WTF is up with that?!?!?!
There was a hole the size of my fist in the "rear" of the block. As well, they had taken off the valve cover. There was no evidence of scoring. Everything inside the engine looked well-lubricated and there was no evidence of excessive wear and tear (other than the exploded rod). It looked like an engine SHOULD look at 43,000 miles.
But get this: The dealership had searched my car. What was laying out on the passenger seat was a time slip from a local drag strip that, while I do race at, I also volunteer for. It literally wasn't even mine! But everything else in the interior of the car had been thrown to the back seat and the glove box was completely re-arranged. WTF is up with that?!?!?!
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
They were looking for the wheel lock key in the glove compartment and happened to find the timeslip? They were looking for oil change recipets and found the timeslip?
A rod bearing would be one of the first things to go, if not the first when lubrication is a problem. A spun bearing could do the damage you have mentioned very easily.
A rod bearing would be one of the first things to go, if not the first when lubrication is a problem. A spun bearing could do the damage you have mentioned very easily.
BlkZoomZoom said:
I agree BZZ, and disagree too. A spun rod bearing would have to get really bad, really fast, to cause that. Especially when the damage to the block indicates a problem with more than one cylinder. The only time I've seen a spun rod bearing cause piston damage was on my T/A, when the extra clearance caused by the bearing backing spinning around allowed the piston skirt to contact the block while the piston was coming down. Even then it just chipped the skirt. His problem looked way more serious than that. His leftovers look like a nitro fuel car motor does when something goes wrong. This is also why I think that any argument about oil changes goes out the window. Old, tired oil would not likely cause a problem like that. If he ran synthetic (and I hope he did), then oil change intervals go much longer than usual, and everyone knows that. I change mine at 7500 miles +, and my motor has stellar compression and doesn't use a drop between changes.
That aside, my whole beef is this: Why does Mazda promote "Zoom Zoom" and show their Mazdaspeed cars doing massive powerslides in their ads, while at the same time corporate tries to say that owners drove the cars too hard? You can't have it both ways. Either these cars were built to "Zoom Zoom" or they weren't. I'd say the overwhelming evidence says that Mazda marketed these cars to perform, but didn't deliver. Damn, I wish I would have gone to law school.
When it's all said and done, I think someone needs to make Mazda wake up and realize that the crappy A/F control on our cars has contributed to the bulk of the problems. That, and the weak LSD's. Supposedly the ECU programming was done by Ford, and if so, then Mazda needs to make sure that it never happens again. I just drove 890 miles from NY to TN in a newly purchased 18 year old 323 GTX that runs 12-13 psi (modified) on a stock B6T motor. That thing pulls like a freight train when the boost is on, and I have no doubts that it would suck the paint off of my modded MSP with 400 cc less displacement and nearly two decade old technology. You have no idea how hard it hit me when I hopped back into my MSP today...the engine control setup sucks complete ass. Mazda had it right on that ancient B6T. Boost, fuel and timing work in perfect unison, and the engine was great the whole trip. Even my first GTX 12 years ago was smooth as silk compared to the MSP. Yes, the FS motor is relatively weak, but it could do a whole lot better if the A/F situation was programmed correctly from the start. Screw that up and you'll do damage to any engine.
*edit* If you want to make a stand and fight with Mazda, I'm right there with you. I've got plenty of bones to pick with corporate after their marketing of the MSP as a hot rod, and their terrible warranty support when their parts failed. I'm not going to do as some have done and say "Mazda sucks" when they don't. Historically, they've made some great cars, including performance cars (who else was willing to bring the rotary to market?). With the MSP they came damn close, but dropped the ball in some crucial areas. I'm a forgiving person and could overlook some of that if they would have at least admitted their fault with the MSP, but they steadfastly deny that any of it is their problem. That's where they're wrong and I'm more than happy to help you help them get their heads out of their asses, do the honorable thing and reap what they've sown.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
MrDiggler said:
Too many different points to respond too here...
1. If you haven't seen anything other than a piece of rod, how do you know that the rod showed no signs of scorching, etc.? If that bearing seized or spun, s*** can happen real quick. Not that this is even a real point. If you do not have proof of maintenance, you have no warranty. For any Manufactuer.
2. I ran mid 13's on a almost completely stock set-up for over a year. It would have continued probably for another few years in that set-up if I didn't throw slicks on. Didn't perform? Maybe you need to learn how to drive.(laugh)
3. 95% of failures of the Msp components are from aftermarket components. Period. Yes, Mazda is ultimately responsible. They more or less left the Msp in the hands of aftermarket suppliers and it bit them in the butt. You also have to remember the Msp was their first attempt at the Mazdaspeed line. They have learned from the weak links of the Msp. You see very, very few aftermarket parts on any of the new cars, much less the Mazdaspeed line.
4. Your 18 yr. old Gtx has less than half of the emissions equipment and standards that the new vehicles have to deal with. If you wanted the Msp Re-flash to have changed the fuel maps, it would be getting released about right now because it would have to get re-tested on all emissions standards.
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- MP5
dont forget the msp was rushed into production! and why would they stop producing such a great car you might wonder!
BlkZoom, I do agree with you on a lot of points. The car was promo'ed as being a track car. A guy that races a BMW E46 at the local events told me some time ago (when I had pitted rotors @ 19000 out of the factory) that he went to court with BMW when they found out he tracked the car. He found a video on the internet of the commercial for his car going around the track at high speed. He actually won!!! Of course, he also has the time and money to goto court. Along those same lines - I really don't want to sue Mazda or goto court with any of their dealers. The MSP, when it runs, it SCREAMS through turns. I can usually outrun BMW 3-series race cars and modded WRX's. Even their older cars, as you were saying, are really well done.
So, I guess you could say I don't want to goto court on principal that Mazda has built some really good cars. BUT - in the case of the warranty.... that's a different story. I'm undecided but not eliminating anything yet.
On the topic bad A/F... as I mentioned before I had detonation issues. When I took it in, the mechanics wrote up their order as follows:
"A CUSTOMER STATES VEHICLES ENGINE IS DETONATING UNDER HARD ACCEL - CHECK AND ADVISE.
"CAUSE: .
F0812XRX POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE, R&R
404 WM94 0.50
1 FS1E-12-215R-00 SENSOR,AIR FLOW
FC: 6X9W PART#: COUNT:
CLAIM TYPE: A
AUTH CODE:
"35476 0.5 DIAGNOSE AND TEST SYSTEM, FOUND LONG FUEL TRIM AT 15% AND FOUND MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR VOLTAGE BELOW SPECS. MEASURED 1.15 VOLTS AT 3000 RPM. REPLACED MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR, FUEL [ CORRECTED SPELLING ] TRIM RETURNED TO NORMAL RANGE. F0812XRX 0.5 6X 9W"
-All of this was covered under warranty. They claimed this fixed the problem, but it did not. This was my 4th trip to a dealership to have my detonation issues fixed. After it turned up again, I checked the plugs myself only to replace them - thus fixing the problem. Thoughts?
So, I guess you could say I don't want to goto court on principal that Mazda has built some really good cars. BUT - in the case of the warranty.... that's a different story. I'm undecided but not eliminating anything yet.
On the topic bad A/F... as I mentioned before I had detonation issues. When I took it in, the mechanics wrote up their order as follows:
"A CUSTOMER STATES VEHICLES ENGINE IS DETONATING UNDER HARD ACCEL - CHECK AND ADVISE.
"CAUSE: .
F0812XRX POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE, R&R
404 WM94 0.50
1 FS1E-12-215R-00 SENSOR,AIR FLOW
FC: 6X9W PART#: COUNT:
CLAIM TYPE: A
AUTH CODE:
"35476 0.5 DIAGNOSE AND TEST SYSTEM, FOUND LONG FUEL TRIM AT 15% AND FOUND MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR VOLTAGE BELOW SPECS. MEASURED 1.15 VOLTS AT 3000 RPM. REPLACED MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR, FUEL [ CORRECTED SPELLING ] TRIM RETURNED TO NORMAL RANGE. F0812XRX 0.5 6X 9W"
-All of this was covered under warranty. They claimed this fixed the problem, but it did not. This was my 4th trip to a dealership to have my detonation issues fixed. After it turned up again, I checked the plugs myself only to replace them - thus fixing the problem. Thoughts?
Too many points? I only had one...Mazda dropped the ball.
BZZ, with all due respect since you have helped me many times when I was stuck and needed it... you're not going all corporate on us, are you? I never said I could tell exactly what happened with his motor. It's really hard to tell now that it's in pieces. My whole point is that the burden of proof doesn't lie with the car owner...it lies with Mazda to prove that it wasn't their problem. Assuming, of course, that the car wasn't modified to any extent. That's why the Magnusson-Moss Act was implemented. Right now it looks like it's up to Mazda to prove that the owner was somehow responsible. True, detonation will usually pound on the upper half of the rod bearing and thin it to the point that the backing grabs the crank and spins it, but unless the FS motor is even weaker than I realized, I don't see how this could cause a rod to puke the block and cause the catastrophic damage that occurred with his engine. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but I spun 7 of 8 rod bearings once in my ancient Pontiac 455 in the T/A once at high speed (7200 rpm in 4th gear...181 mph...I was running from the flashing blue lights...don't ask) and the motor still got me to the house regardless. Sure, it didn't want to turn over again after it cooled back down, but it at least stayed intact. I'm just still at a loss to understand how the hell someone can puke a block on a stock Mazda motor, unless it's a weak ass motor or unless something was way wrong or way weak with the thing from the get-go.
Like I said, Mazda did a lot of things right with this car, but there are a few very important things that they didn't iron out. If it won't hold up, don't build it and market it as a sports car! I'm as big a Mazda fan as you'll ever meet, but I'm not letting them off the hook on this point. If you're going to turbo an already weak motor, at the very least make sure the A/F tuning is right. Same as if you're going to install a LSD from the factory, make sure it won't break under normal "Zoom Zoom" use. If not, be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Right now it looks like this one is on Mazda, and the burden of proof is on them to say that it's not.
BZZ, with all due respect since you have helped me many times when I was stuck and needed it... you're not going all corporate on us, are you? I never said I could tell exactly what happened with his motor. It's really hard to tell now that it's in pieces. My whole point is that the burden of proof doesn't lie with the car owner...it lies with Mazda to prove that it wasn't their problem. Assuming, of course, that the car wasn't modified to any extent. That's why the Magnusson-Moss Act was implemented. Right now it looks like it's up to Mazda to prove that the owner was somehow responsible. True, detonation will usually pound on the upper half of the rod bearing and thin it to the point that the backing grabs the crank and spins it, but unless the FS motor is even weaker than I realized, I don't see how this could cause a rod to puke the block and cause the catastrophic damage that occurred with his engine. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but I spun 7 of 8 rod bearings once in my ancient Pontiac 455 in the T/A once at high speed (7200 rpm in 4th gear...181 mph...I was running from the flashing blue lights...don't ask) and the motor still got me to the house regardless. Sure, it didn't want to turn over again after it cooled back down, but it at least stayed intact. I'm just still at a loss to understand how the hell someone can puke a block on a stock Mazda motor, unless it's a weak ass motor or unless something was way wrong or way weak with the thing from the get-go.
Like I said, Mazda did a lot of things right with this car, but there are a few very important things that they didn't iron out. If it won't hold up, don't build it and market it as a sports car! I'm as big a Mazda fan as you'll ever meet, but I'm not letting them off the hook on this point. If you're going to turbo an already weak motor, at the very least make sure the A/F tuning is right. Same as if you're going to install a LSD from the factory, make sure it won't break under normal "Zoom Zoom" use. If not, be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Right now it looks like this one is on Mazda, and the burden of proof is on them to say that it's not.
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Sorry about all your troubles, this really sucks if you honestly didnt have any significant mods, should not have blown up like this..... As far as the oil change records go i think this is a mute point, i think you can definately prove failure from lack of lubication or not...... Also no oil changes=sludge build up inside of the engine-oil pan, valve cover, etc...... With lots of dealer knowledge i have seen personally many engines and various other components warranteed with no maintenance records and obvious signs of abuse covered without a problem..... Good Luck...... Hope your selling dealer takes care of this one...... (pissed)
EmRid, sorry to hear about your engine. If I were you, I'd try to stay calm and try to get a hold of Mazda North America. I had issues with a local dealership for a rebate they promised me and repeatedly tried to stiff me on. It took me almost a year of having the dealership either blowing me off or straight up lying to my face each time I contacted them. Absolutely nothing happened until I got corporate to contact them on my behalf.
I hate my dealership with a passion.
I hate my dealership with a passion.
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