back end wants to pass

[2002yellowpro5]

Hey i was wondering if anyone has had the back end of the car try to pass them in a hard corner.
And how can i fix this its starting to bother me

 

[vindication]

how'd you do it. most people here would prefer this to understeer. I'm installing a 21.5mm rear sway bar to get my ass end to swing out more.

 

[2002yellowpro5]

well i dont know my budies say out of every one they know i can push a fwd car the best, i can control the side but i rather have it stick. i just go in to a corner pritty hard not to over drive it and just befor the apex of it let the cluch out and the front will slow down and the back will slid then role on the gas and she will slid all the wasy though

 

[BadApple]

I can't swing the back end of my car for nothing.. and i have tries many, many times! i have way to much traction in corners....the most that has ever happened is the front end looses traction (The tires slide) in a hard fast corner.

 

[Douggie]

well i dont know my budies say out of every one they know i can push a fwd car the best, i can control the side but i rather have it stick. i just go in to a corner pritty hard not to over drive it and just befor the apex of it let the cluch out and the front will slow down and the back will slid then role on the gas and she will slid all the wasy though

So you're going into the turn with the clutch depressed...

 

[2002yellowpro5]

well sort of i use the motor to slow me but i drop one more gear at the last second and then it will put alot more pressure on the front letting the back slide by the time you just pass the apex you should be in the next gear pulling you out of the corner. Basicly you go in to the corner 5 4 3 just when you start the turn 2 then hit the apex snap 3 and give her hell

 

[Mike R]

That's why it's coming around, all the wieght is on the front wheels. If you rev matched when letting the clutch out it woudn't do that as bad. You should just brake a bit instead of using the engine that much.

Or just put an MSP/MP3 front swaybar on. Which is the opposite of what everone here does...

 

[2002yellowpro5]

lol if i shoot in to a corner just hauling ass with out cheating with the clutch it will pass also and why dose every one want the back to slid and does anyone in bc have a sway bar kicking around, and how much will this change

 

[xelderx]

Sounds to me like your upsetting the suspension of the car right at a critical moment by catching that last gear in the middle of a corner. The object of good cornering is to make as few changes to the weight transfer, line, brakes, and, gas as possible. I trail brake quite a bit in my Pro5 when entering corners to help the back end rotate more which is just a smoother way of transfering grip and weight than what you are doing and still getting the desired effect. If you want the car to rotate less try and make the entry and mid corner actions a little smoother. If you absolutely have to make that 2nd gear shift mid-corner like you are describing, try and do a little heel/toe shifting to smooth the transition out. I use a lot of engine braking like you describe, but I heel/toe my downshifts to keep it from upsetting the suspension of the car. If the entire corner is not one smooth motion you are going to end up with things sliding.

 

[xelderx]

lol if i shoot in to a corner just hauling ass with out cheating with the clutch it will pass also and why dose every one want the back to slid and does anyone in bc have a sway bar kicking around, and how much will this change

Sounds like your corner entry speed is a little too fast to me. Remember that the fastest way to get out of a corner is not directly related to how fast you get into the corner. In the Proteges, it is more beneficial to carry more exit speed, to make up for less HP, than to overcook the entry and be fighting the car through the middle of the corner only to come out slower.

 

[2002yellowpro5]

Ok my night sucks i have to be up at 430am and i just got back form my office i forgot drawings at, but the bright side is i tryed you way of cornering and yah it works way better on sweepy corners i could pull way better out of one but for the nice tight right handers i found that i could get a bit better exit speed out of them with my old way lol oh well that was 87km of fun in 1 hour

 

[xelderx]

Ok my night sucks i have to be up at 430am and i just got back form my office i forgot drawings at, but the bright side is i tryed you way of cornering and yah it works way better on sweepy corners i could pull way better out of one but for the nice tight right handers i found that i could get a bit better exit speed out of them with my old way lol oh well that was 87km of fun in 1 hour

Cool deal...different style corners will always require different techniques to get through them. It's nearly impossible to describe or diagnose technique/vehicle dynamics over the internet. Driving style and car setup are too complex to hash out in internet conversations. I'm glad that we could both get our ideas across and it not seem like jibberish. If you ever get a video of those tighter corners so we could get a better idea of what's going on I would love to see it. Sounds like you were able to modify your driving style to suit one style corner. Maybe the car setup needs a little tweaking to help with the other corners.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

Hey i was wondering if anyone has had the back end of the car try to pass them in a hard corner.
And how can i fix this its starting to bother me

I have an auto and was hitting the gas on an onramp and the back end kicked out for a split second. Dunno if this means anything.

 

[Pretzellogic]

You really don't want the back end coming around. Trust me.

If you really want it to, put sticky tires on the front, snows on the rear, get yourself an AWR bar, and then go find a wet road.

 

[Gbourdon]

Trail braking and try and keep the back end from getting so light. Fortunately with the MSP we have the limited slip. If the back end starts coming around you can generally get back on the gas, put some weight back on that rear right tire and the LSD will pull you through. This should work to some extent in the P5 but it may end up with a lot of wheel spin on that inside front wheel.

I would expect a stiffer front sway bar to help out.

 

[Gbourdon]

There was a great article that shed some light on this subject in "Grassroots Motorsports" magazine a month or so ago.

The one with the blue miata on the cover (dunno)

 

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

yeah i had a similar expierence and it was on a public highway 84 for anyone that knows. taking a a left turn to exit 19 i beleive doing like 80-90 pushing the car i slowly felt the back end wanting to give way and slide out from me so i slowed down and kept the car under control. after that ive never tried that or pushing the car that hard on a high way even though i do hit 80-90 on the merrit parkway and take turns doing 70-80. but then again im a newb and need to learn better techniques so props to all you informed people.

 

[Gbourdon]

The MSP is pretty good about staying put and recovering. I never noticed how much you can cause oversteer and how much a car can react just by taking weight off of the back end. Right now I have a rental 2005 Maxima and that car will oversteer very bad. The ATX will even cause it when it downshifts if the roads are slick at all.

If you get on the brakes more it is going to exagerate the condition.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

yeah i had a similar expierence and it was on a public highway 84 for anyone that knows. taking a a left turn to exit 19 i beleive doing like 80-90 pushing the car i slowly felt the back end wanting to give way and slide out from me so i slowed down and kept the car under control. after that ive never tried that or pushing the car that hard on a high way even though i do hit 80-90 on the merrit parkway and take turns doing 70-80. but then again im a newb and need to learn better techniques so props to all you informed people.

I believe that is the "passive" steering. A corner I did 90 in a Contour with I have only done 85 max in the P5. On long sweepers the P5 feels very unstable. I even fooled around once and took a rented last gen legacy at 80 without a single problem. The P5 is one scary mofo on long sweepers and I will takes the other 2 stated LOOOONG before I would a P5. On tight corners though the P5 is good. IMO the suspension is all that either. I'm not sold on the P5 being a "corner monster" this forum would lead you to believe.

On the plus side, I kept a turboed Probe at my back door up to 45 when I let off. That thing looked like a garbage can on wheels though. I have no idea how my auto tranny and 87 octane gas pulled this off.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

You really don't want the back end coming around. Trust me.

If you really want it to, put sticky tires on the front, snows on the rear, get yourself an AWR bar, and then go find a wet road.

Muhahaha...back end is more stable and planted than the front imo. I have had the front continue going straight with the wheel turned 2 times now. Once was just rain and I hit the brake before entry and abs started kicking and thought it would have been ok...nope..EBD doesn't work in those times either. The other times was same corner but a little snow. I was driving carefully and wanted to test out the grip of the tires. I got the car almost pointed dead straight when I slightly hit the gas...wrong idea...once again wheel turned car went straight. I have never had this happen in any other car. I seriously think the front suspension sucks on the P5.