ATTN: Potential Scammer!

[Jliao]

I "personally" don't think limiting the seller with limited post counts or days in order to sell his/her stuff is a good idea. For example, sometimes people come here for legit sale but is also their first time here. I, for one been through this situation. I was trying to sell my rims couple months ago. Knowing that my rims can also fit on RSX, and luckly the RSX forum didn't limit this rule where new user can't sell stuff. As of result, I was able to get rims off my hand. IF, the RSX forum did enforce such a rule, I doubt I would be able to sell my rims even now because I'm not an active RSX forum reader.

So, what do I think we should do? I think we should enforce new poster that's interesting in selling stuff provide the admin/mod with personal contact. Then, have one of the admin/mod calls him to verify his interest in selling the item?

Anyway, just my $.02

 

[memo79]

That's not a bad Idea, either.

 

[benimal]

I "personally" don't think limiting the seller with limited post counts or days in order to sell his/her stuff is a good idea. For example, sometimes people come here for legit sale but is also their first time here. I, for one been through this situation. I was trying to sell my rims couple months ago. Knowing that my rims can also fit on RSX, and luckly the RSX forum didn't limit this rule where new user can't sell stuff. As of result, I was able to get rims off my hand. IF, the RSX forum did enforce such a rule, I doubt I would be able to sell my rims even now because I'm not an active RSX forum reader.

So, what do I think we should do? I think we should enforce new poster that's interesting in selling stuff provide the admin/mod with personal contact. Then, have one of the admin/mod calls him to verify his interest in selling the item?

Anyway, just my $.02

What do you consider a "new poster?" If I understand you correctly, a "new poster" will be someone who has been a member for either a short time, or is not very active in making posts/contributions. In some sense, I am a "new poster" cause I've been on the boards for 1 1/2 years, but haven't sold anything on here. My rep points are at the base level.

I think having an admin/mod contact each new person that wants to sell something is a bit intrusive and makes more work for the mods. What if the mod contacts the seller and then the seller turns out to scam someone? Do we then "fire" that mod, removing their admin/mod rights and privileges? That's not really a far-fetched scenario.

If a person is in a hurry to sell something, put it on ebay or have a garage sale. If they can wait a little while, then put it on the forums. You gotta pay to play, and here paying is putting in your time as a trusted member of the community.

Ben

Ben

 

[MSPguy]

im not sure i agree with the post count either. ive been a member for a while now but i dont post much because well... i dont really know much to be giving imput and when i have a question, i just do a search and i can find the answer. i go on the forums everyday to see if there is any new info on our car or new product coming along. but if i ever sell anything, i dont want to be called a scammer because of my post count.

but then again i am not sure i can trust the longetivity thing either because i person can become a member a long time ago but never browse the forum then all-of-a-sudden just come back in a year or two and try to sell something and then scam a person.

i guess what i am trying to say is that there is no possible way to know when you will be scamed. i dont want to be labeled as something that i am not. just got to trust the seller. if you cant, then dont buy from the person. when it comes down to it, you dont really know who is going to scam you. just my .02

 

[changedman]

its a tough call.

 

[Jliao]

What do you consider a "new poster?" If I understand you correctly, a "new poster" will be someone who has been a member for either a short time, or is not very active in making posts/contributions. In some sense, I am a "new poster" cause I've been on the boards for 1 1/2 years, but haven't sold anything on here. My rep points are at the base level.

I think having an admin/mod contact each new person that wants to sell something is a bit intrusive and makes more work for the mods. What if the mod contacts the seller and then the seller turns out to scam someone? Do we then "fire" that mod, removing their admin/mod rights and privileges? That's not really a far-fetched scenario.

If a person is in a hurry to sell something, put it on ebay or have a garage sale. If they can wait a little while, then put it on the forums. You gotta pay to play, and here paying is putting in your time as a trusted member of the community.

Ben

Ben

When I meant "new poster" as people that just signed up (no signature, no avatar) and with post counts below 10 or even 20. We usually can tell.

Like you said -- "you gotta pay to play," then be prepare to get contact and provide your personal information incase of anything happen. If the person end of being a scammer, hopefully we can report to the local police with the contact info. In addition, putting on ebay or garage sale sometimes won't give you the best value you can get than selling it on car forum. For example, local pickup? and incase you missed it, recently ebay has raised the price of listing price by double (or around that). In another word, if you were to sell a set of rims for $1600 with old comission fee estimating of $46 (how much mine was), then now it would be $80 almost $90 for the comission fee.

Of course, there AREN'T any "BEST" way to avoid scammer. But this is the best I can think of. I'm sure Antoine and other admins are open for suggestions.

What are the source of capturing this scammer?
1. his personal contact info (full name, address, phone #, alternative phone #)
2. Paypal
3. Maybe call him/her again right before the transaction is going to happen? dunno..

 

[SkinnyJoint]

yea time is way better cuz then there just going to ***** it up but i think its an excellent idea

 

[Antoine]

Great responses so far...but it seems clear that post or time limits are not reliable enough to use as a scammer deterrent...How about a few simple rules that must be followed to in order to conduct non-AV/AMM related sales...don't follow the rules...NO SALE!...I don't care how sweet the deal is (too sweet is often a rip anyway).

Rough Draft...

Non-Authorized Vendor / Approved Merchant Member For Sale Rules

• You must have a pic of the item for sale with proof it's in your possession (pic includes sign with date and or some other form of proof...ex: Mazda Forums 1/19/05)
  
  You must provide a phone # for potential buyers to contact you...
  
  You must have at least 1 trusted Mazda Forums member vouch for you

All 3 rules can be required or even just the 1st two...We can't have a verification process that's too extensive or inefficient...it will be counter productive.

I think those rules could make a real difference BUT THEY MUST BE ENFORCED...no half ass moderating!

What do you guys think?

 

[blizzard]

Well, seeing as I think I was kinda the catalyst for this post I think I might venture my 2.

Firstly, speedmo21 did come through with my money. He refunded me at 10:30 my time this evening. One month and 18 days since I sent him the money. Regardless, I now have my money back.

I think the issue we may have is the same that ebay and any other online for-sale forum has. Even if all requirements are still met, you can still have someone scam. speedmo21 had over 200 posts, and has been registered since Nov 2003. I am not sure if all the attention about scams got him to refund my money. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that he was just busy and he was still waiting to see if I got them (he maintains they were lost in the mail).

I don't think post count really has much bearing on anything (as Antoine posted above) because you could have someone come on here and post 200 times in 5 days then try and sell $5000 worth of s*** then disappear. On the other hand time on a forum doesn't guarantee that someone is trustworthy. And as someone else has said above, it could limit a genuine seller. As a buyer I'd hate to lose a killer deal on some parts because someone couldn't be bothered to wait the required 30 days or whatever (sorry, I know I can't have my cake and eat it too ).

Can you not make it mandatory for users to give you more information if they want to post in the for sale forum. Then the users can choose if they want to show this info below their avatar. If someone comes to be in the same situation as I was in, they could contact a For Sale Mod, and get the seller's info, and at least have some more recourse. This would not reduce a person's privacy on here because they would still be able to choose to show that info or not.

Any how, everyone has had good suggestions. I think any more rules than are in effect now will be better!

Thanks for making this thread Antoine. I hope it helps people in the future, and makes the buying/selling process more safe for all users.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

honestly there are always going to be problems if someone wants to scam there is always a way to do it. but by enforcing a couple of rules that will take it down a bit, and make it a little bit more difficult. Whatever you decide on i think it can only benefit

 

[FunkyBuddha]

This is a good idea too. I say a combo thing.

The post count thing I pitched was so that you can view the quality of their posts. Say he's been a member for 3 years and has 200 posts. You can pretty much judge their quality of posts. So make the minimum post count to sell something around 100 or 200 posts. You can make a safer judgement by viewing their posts within the boards. If they just post ***** to get to 200 posts in order to sell something...dont' buy from them.

Great responses so far...but it seems clear that post or time limits are not reliable enough to use as a scammer deterrent...How about a few simple rules that must be followed to in order to conduct non-AV/AMM related sales...don't follow the rules...NO SALE!...I don't care how sweet the deal is (too sweet is often a rip anyway).

Rough Draft...

Non-Authorized Vendor / Approved Merchant Member For Sale Rules

• You must have a pic of the item for sale with proof it's in your possession (pic includes sign with date and or some other form of proof...ex: Mazda Forums 1/19/05)
  
  You must provide a phone # for potential buyers to contact you...
  
  You must have at least 1 trusted Mazda Forums member vouch for you

All 3 rules can be required or even just the 1st two...We can't have a verification process that's too extensive or inefficient...it will be counter productive.

I think those rules could make a real difference BUT THEY MUST BE ENFORCED...no half ass moderating!

What do you guys think?

 

[SpicyMchaggis]

Why don't you just log their IPs for future re-registering of scammers?

 

[nictlg7]

I hope this is somehow regulated and verified? Often there is confusion or misconception, or even just miscommunications. You wouldn't want to label someone negatively and lose them from the site, if they only had one deal with some miscommunication. We all know that the people who have been happy with deals on here rarely step up and say how well things went. So the person might be 9-1, good to bad...and the one bad may not even be as it appears. It may just be crossed signals or any number of things beyond their control. That is just my opinion, though. I understand why you are doing this and I agree with the motive behind it. I just hope there is an "innocent until proven guilty" policy in effect. Thanks for listening to be blab...(enguard)

 

[benimal]

Is there any way to track the number of "For Sale" threads created by a person? Ideally we would want a way to distinguish between the GI, FS, WTB, WTT threads out there. I would think that could be done with some mandatory field at the time a new thread is opened in the For Sale section. Only real FS threads would increase some "For Sale post" counter. Then someone can see how many times a user actually opened a FS thread.

Or maybe... FS reputation points... lol

Doesn't prevent people from creating multiple ids, but it helps people out who have more to sell and tend to be more reputable.

Ben

 

[jrodhotrod]

There is always the "trader rating" kind of system that I have seen on other forums. It's kind of like Ebay feedback where folks get the chance to rate the other person after taking part in a "for sale" transaction.

At the very least it would keep people from scamming multiple folks.

 

[Shane5425]

why dont we just get an approved seller list and only people on that list can post in the for sale area.. to get on the list, you would have to go through a moderator..

 

[benimal]

There is always the "trader rating" kind of system that I have seen on other forums. It's kind of like Ebay feedback where folks get the chance to rate the other person after taking part in a "for sale" transaction.

At the very least it would keep people from scamming multiple folks.

Actually I kinda like this cause it would be applicable to both buyers and sellers. Remember that a buy can still scam someone just as easily as a seller can.

Ben

 

[jurgs01]

You guys are getting way too in-depth. If someone is scammed have them PM a mod. The seller has two weeks to resolve the situation. If the situation isn't resolved they are put on a master "do not buy from list." Also, anything sold on here should be required to at least get and give to the buyer a delivery confirmation # (USPS). It's like 55 cents to get that and it's proof that something has been shipped. UPS & Fedex automatically get tracking numbers. There is no reason why the buyer shouldn't have a number within a week of payment.

 

[jrodhotrod]

yup, I agree. Pre-approval lists and so on and so forth and making all these rules will get out of hand. We must remember that the majority of For Sale transactions are on the up and up and go off without a hitch. The scammers are in the minority.

The easiest and best thing the forum can do is:

Create a master do not buy from list
Set-up a feedback system (trader rating) similar to ebay where buyers and sellers can rate their experience
Advise forum members of wise practices when making online purchases
Encourage the use of tracking numbers

A lot of it is common sense. Low post count, approach with caution. I think most people here are aware of that.

 

[benimal]

You guys are getting way too in-depth. If someone is scammed have them PM a mod. The seller has two weeks to resolve the situation. If the situation isn't resolved they are put on a master "do not buy from list." Also, anything sold on here should be required to at least get and give to the buyer a delivery confirmation # (USPS). It's like 55 cents to get that and it's proof that something has been shipped. UPS & Fedex automatically get tracking numbers. There is no reason why the buyer shouldn't have a number within a week of payment.

Well not really - it's all in how you approach it. Do you take a proactive position and: educate, require mod intervention for first-time sellers, setup a master list of bad people? Or do you wait until someone has been scammed and admonish them cause they forgot to spend 55 cents on delivery confirmation?

Delivery confirmation & fedex tracking #s won't get you your money back if someone is trying to scam you. Spending the time to research a seller (like you would research a car) will help ensure that you are better off in the long run. Yes common sense may dictate not to buy from someone who has a low post count or been a member a short time. To paraphrase Ben Franklin, "Common sense is very uncommon."

I'm for the "proactive", preventetive approach: take the necessary steps to make buys and sellers feel more comfortable. Other people are just fine with the way things are now. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks...

Ben