Any chance we ever see an AWD CX5 with MT in the US?

[mazda3NH]

I live in a snowy climate and having at least 1 AWD car is a must.

I'd really like to replace my Outback with CX5, but the lack of a Manual Transmission is a deal breaker. As much as I vastly prefer the styling and driving dynamics of Mazda over Subaru, I'm bummed that Mazda seems to offer the MT in AWD everywhere else in the world but North America.

Seriously, if they're going to offer a MT at all, it should be in the AWD version of the car.

 

[aeglaeca]

I wouldn't hold out much hope for this. It seems that manufacturers associate MT with low-cost and nothing else, thereby only offering the MT in the lowest common denominator of option packages.

 

[xxxmonoxidechil]

Its doubtful. they cant even offer a color option with a MTX trans. Or leather... Mazda really seems to not give a s*** about the MTX buyers and what they want.

 

[CX-SV]

Not likely. From a business perspective the lost revenue and profit as a result of the decision is not significant, therefore not justified.

Note: The 6 speed AT is very advanced and the manual mode with rev-matching downshifts is especially slick and BMW-like.

 

[mazda3NH]

I wouldn't hold out much hope for this. It seems that manufacturers associate MT with low-cost and nothing else, thereby only offering the MT in the lowest common denominator of option packages.

See that's the thing. The VAST majority of people who want MT do so for performance reasons, not economics. Ford gets this, hence why they only offer a 6 speed MT in their performance oriented Focus ST.

Not likely. From a business perspective the lost revenue and profit as a result of the decision is not significant, therefore not justified.

Note: The 6 speed AT is very advanced and the manual mode with rev-matching downshifts is especially slick and BMW-like.

As far as from a business perspective, I know dozens of Subaru owners who would jump ship to Mazda if a MT was offered in either a wagon or cross over. I'm sure there are thousands of Outback and Forester owners who would switch to the CX5 in a heartbeat if a MT was available.

and regarding the 6 speed AT being very advanced? They make some very leather like Vinyl these days as well.

seriously, I'm never giving up MT for any AT on the market no matter how slick it is and what kind of "manual mode" it offers. 3 pedals only here. I want to drive a car, not just steer it.

 

[CX-SV]

As far as from a business perspective, I know dozens of Subaru owners who would jump ship to Mazda if a MT was offered in either a wagon or cross over. I'm sure there are thousands of Outback and Forester owners who would switch to the CX5 in a heartbeat if a MT was available.

and regarding the 6 speed AT being very advanced? They make some very leather like Vinyl these days as well.

seriously, I'm never giving up MT for any AT on the market no matter how slick it is and what kind of "manual mode" it offers. 3 pedals only here. I want to drive a car, not just steer it.

Exactly the point, dozens of people would buy it per year, out of the 48000 per year that buy the CX-5.

I've owned too many manuals to count, in other words been there, done that.

 

[mazda3NH]

I know dozens personally. That's just me and as I said, I would put the figure in the thousands. You know how many MT Outbacks and Foresters are on the road? tens of thousands. The CX-5 is a way better car. Stealing Subaru customers is new business, not repeat business. There are plenty of VW MT drivers as well who would make the switch. It would grow their brand. I think Mazda is being penny wise and pound foolish by not offering a MT AWD CX5. preferably with a diesel engine.

 

[CX-SV]

Good luck with that, Mazda knows what the actual take-rate is with manual trannys on SUVs, extremely low. The CX-5 is already stealing business from several brands already, just look at our thread here showing what people traded when they bought CX-5.

A lot of old MT Outbacks and Foresters are on the road because they are reliable and durable workhorse vehicles, and most of them will be retired and traded for something more modern (with an auto tranny). One of my relatives actually has one, she's cheap and uses it like an ugly appliance. Everybody else I know with Subies has auto trannys.

A diesel in North American market would not be the predominate-selling engine, but the take-rate will be much higher than any manual tranny CX-5configuration.

 

[mikeee2]

I live in a snowy climate and having at least 1 AWD car is a must.

I'd really like to replace my Outback with CX5, but the lack of a Manual Transmission is a deal breaker. As much as I vastly prefer the styling and driving dynamics of Mazda over Subaru, I'm bummed that Mazda seems to offer the MT in AWD everywhere else in the world but North America.

Seriously, if they're going to offer a MT at all, it should be in the AWD version of the car.

I didn't even know they make AWD M/T outside of US. I totally agree with you. I think the M/T should also pair with AWD aside from FWD. It does add weight but for snowy area, it sure helps to have an AWD. But M/T + extra weight AWD with 155 horses is not a win win situation. Need at least the updated 2.5 engine or more horses.

 

[mazda3NH]

Good luck with that, Mazda knows what the actual take-rate is with manual trannys on SUVs, extremely low. The CX-5 is already stealing business from several brands already, just look at our thread here showing what people traded when they bought CX-5.

A lot of old MT Outbacks and Foresters are on the road because they are reliable and durable workhorse vehicles, and most of them will be retired and traded for something more modern (with an auto tranny). One of my relatives actually has one, she's cheap and uses it like an ugly appliance. Everybody else I know with Subies has auto trannys.

A diesel in North American market would not be the predominate-selling engine, but the take-rate will be much higher than any manual tranny CX-5configuration.

Everyone I know who drives an Outback or a Forester has a MT. I don't know a single person who has either model with an AT. Those are two of the most popular models for skiers here in New England. These are new vehicles driven by affluent people, not old rust buckets driven by penny pinchers.

I definitely disagree with you on the Diesel not becoming the predominate-selling engine. 85% of TDI Sportwagens sold right now have diesel engines. Outside of the initial purchase price being higher, I don't know why anyone would take a gas engine over a diesel. Far more usable torque in the diesel and the obvious fuel economy improvement make it a no brainer.

 

[CX-SV]

Everyone I know who drives an Outback or a Forester has a MT. I don't know a single person who has either model with an AT. Those are two of the most popular models for skiers here in New England. These are new vehicles driven by affluent people, not old rust buckets driven by penny pinchers.

I definitely disagree with you on the Diesel not becoming the predominate-selling engine. 85% of TDI Sportwagens sold right now have diesel engines. Outside of the initial purchase price being higher, I don't know why anyone would take a gas engine over a diesel. Far more usable torque in the diesel and the obvious fuel economy improvement make it a no brainer.

Obviously CA is a different market. Only a few of the rust buckets survive up in Sierras/Lake Tahoe, otherwise most new Subies here in highest income large metro area in the US (greater SF Bay Area) are auto tranny.

TDI take rate is unique to VW, not likely Mazda will duplicate it for a variety of reasons (including high purchase price premium, higher diesel prices, spotty diesel availability, DPF maintenance / problems, etc.). Therefore Not likely to be predominate engine in US market.

 

[mazda3NH]

Obviously CA is a different market. Only a few of the rust buckets survive up in Sierras/Lake Tahoe, otherwise most new Subies here in highest income large metro area in the US (greater SF Bay Area) are auto tranny.

TDI take rate is unique to VW, not likely Mazda will duplicate it for a variety of reasons (including high purchase price premium, higher diesel prices, spotty diesel availability, DPF maintenance / problems, etc.). Therefore Not likely to be predominate engine in US market.

Why would it only be unique to VW? VW faces the same hurdles as Mazda would. TDI costs more, fuel costs more, spotty diesel availability etc, YET 85% of the Sportwagens sold have diesel engines.

Diesel auto sales in the US have increased in 22 of the past 23 months with double-digit increases in 20 of those months. And diesel auto sales increased by more than 30 percent in 12 of these months.

The number of clean diesel model cars available in the US is expected to double in the next 3 years. CX5 diesel may not achieve the 85% numbers of the Sportwagen, but I'll make a gentlemen's bet that if introduced, the diesel sales will be higher than gasoline for the CX5 by mid 2014

 

[CX-SV]

Why would it only be unique to VW? VW faces the same hurdles as Mazda would. TDI costs more, fuel costs more, spotty diesel availability etc, YET 85% of the Sportwagens sold have diesel engines.

Diesel auto sales in the US have increased in 22 of the past 23 months with double-digit increases in 20 of those months. And diesel auto sales increased by more than 30 percent in 12 of these months.

Btw - what's a Sportwagon? A Jetta I assume.

VW currently does about 20% diesels in US, much better than US average around 3.5%. Only the big and expensive Toureg is approaching 50% take on diesel, top selling line of Jettas around 28% in July 2012.






Why (regarding Mazda), already listed above, the higher ($3K+) purchase price alone is one big reason, not to mention increasing costs in making diesels clean and that diesel fuel is not subsidized in US. And specific to VW, the standard gas 4 and 5 bangers are weak and dated engines, not desirable engines.

Yes diesel growth is accelerating from its very low market share in US (predicted to double share by 2016 to 7%), but as I said before (and more on topic) :

For the CX-5 in US, manual trannys and/or diesel engines will Not be predominate sales-wise, I'd bet. (That's my bet, under 50% by mid 2014)

 

[mazda3NH]

85% of Jetta Sportwagens sold in the US are diesel.

If you want to skew the number down to 20% of Jetta sales as diesel to support your argument in this convesation, go for it, but the gas powered entry level Jetta Sedan sells for around $16.5K and competes with the Mazda 3 Sedan, not the Mazda CX5. The gas powered Sportwagen, which would be the CX5 competitor starts at $20,395. The CX5 starts at $20,995. That is the car the CX5 is competing against in regards to VW, not the sedan model. The Sportswagen Diesel starts at $25,540. That's not a $3K difference in price, but over a $5K difference. Yet, despite the massive premium increase in price to go with a Diesel, and all the other factors you've listed, 85% of Sportwagens sold have Diesel engines.

Hop the pond to Japan. 73% of the CX5s being sold in Japan right now have the diesel engine.

I think you are 100% correct in that the market share for MTs will always be small. Probably less than 10%. But, as mentioned, I'm willing to bet that the Diesel outsells the Gas model within 2 years of introduction. The fuel is more expensive, but more torque and 50 mpg vs 35 mpg is a no brainer for an additional $3K. The chief complaint on the current CX5 is lack of power. The Diesel addresses that and offers 50mpg. That's the better alternative than the rumored introduction of a 180HP 2.5 gasser that delivers 32mpg and is probably only a couple grand cheaper than what the diesel would be.

 

[V8toilet]

Reasons why Americans won't buy into the diesel engine option.

1. Diesel fuel is taxed at a higher rate than gasoline so it is often more expensive than even premium fuel (thanks uncle Sam). The perception to Americans is diesels are too expensive.

2. Americans perceive diesels to be slow, smoking, clattering and dirty even though they are no longer that way.

3. The extra cost of a diesel engine pushes the purchase price of the vehicle into a class where you can get the same or similar vehicle with a gas engine with allot more options for the same money. Basically add 3k-5k to any of the current options and compare those to the petrol or competitors offerings. This isn't good in a fiercely competitive class where 1 in 3 vehicles sold in this country is a crossover.

4. #3 ties into #4 where the extra cost of a Diesel puts it in direct competition with hybrid power trains and Americans have a better perception of hybrids thanks to the liberal brain washing media. Also our stupid government subsidizes hybrid and electric vehicles giving them a competitive edge at the expense of the ever shrinking over taxed middle class.

5. The cost of gasoline is still a lot lower in the US compared to other countries where diesels outsell petrol engines making the cost of owning a gasoline engine relatively inexpensive. Diesel fuel in those counties is less expensive compared to gasoline fuel in the same country.

You guys who know the facts are a rare breed and I'm with you. I'd buy a diesel over the hybrid any day especially with 3 pedals if I could.

 

[CX-SV]

85% of Jetta Sportwagens sold in the US are diesel.

If you want to skew the number down to 20% of Jetta sales as diesel to support your argument in this convesation, go for it, but the gas powered entry level Jetta Sedan sells for around $16.5K and competes with the Mazda 3 Sedan, not the Mazda CX5. The gas powered Sportwagen, which would be the CX5 competitor starts at $20,395. The CX5 starts at $20,995. That is the car the CX5 is competing against in regards to VW, not the sedan model. The Sportswagen Diesel starts at $25,540. That's not a $3K difference in price, but over a $5K difference. Yet, despite the massive premium increase in price to go with a Diesel, and all the other factors you've listed, 85% of Sportwagens sold have Diesel engines.

Hop the pond to Japan. 73% of the CX5s being sold in Japan right now have the diesel engine.

I think you are 100% correct in that the market share for MTs will always be small. Probably less than 10%. But, as mentioned, I'm willing to bet that the Diesel outsells the Gas model within 2 years of introduction. The fuel is more expensive, but more torque and 50 mpg vs 35 mpg is a no brainer for an additional $3K. The chief complaint on the current CX5 is lack of power. The Diesel addresses that and offers 50mpg. That's the better alternative than the rumored introduction of a 180HP 2.5 gasser that delivers 32mpg and is probably only a couple grand cheaper than what the diesel would be.

The Sportwagon has nothing to do with CX-5, not applicable, not a SUV, nobody cares. Japan is not US market.

CRV, Escape, Sportage, Rouge, Tuscon are main competitors. More applicable is Tiguan and VW will soon offer diesel.

 

[CX-SV]

Another thread sidetracked into a diesel discussion, lol. sorry.

What happened to OP's topic (MT/AWD)...

 

[mazda3NH]

If you don't think CX-5 shoppers also look at the Sportwagen, you're out of your mind. Even though not an SUV, the Sportwagen is more of a competitor than the Tiguan. Why? Fuel economy. CX-5 has it, Sportwagen has it, Tiguan does not.

The number 1 reason the CX5 is doing so well is its fuel economy. It's not like the CX7 was a bad car, it just didn't have eye popping fuel economy numbers like the CX5 does. If the CX5 had the same fuel economy as the CX7 did, it would not do nearly as well. People are gravitating towards it for fuel economy. What are the only other options out there in the US that offers similar utility and fuel economy numbers? The Sportwagen and to a lesser extent Forester and Outback.

Unless Mazda completely dumbs itself down, VW is the prime competitor, not Honda, Kia, Ford etc. Mazda and VW are the only two manufacturers at that price point that put a major focus on handling and driving dynamics. 3 drivers look at Golfs as an alternative. 6 drivers at the Passat. Speed3 at the GTI and so on and so forth.

 

[fthomasr]

If you don't think CX-5 shoppers also look at the Sportwagen, you're out of your mind.

Yep. I concur. I've been looking at the sportwagen as well. Manual vs Manual. That thing holds a TON. Maybe more than the CX-5, especially longer cargo.

 

[CX-SV]

Lol, and now back to SUVs and OP's topic for a change, instead of being "out of your mind".

(Even though VW makes crossover SUVs too)