Another fuel controller to look into...

[Captain KRM P5]

the unit will not work with the ECU on the Protege, Protege5, MP3 or Mazdaspeed Protege. there have been numerous discussions about this on this and several other forums. our ECU does not accept ANY outside inputs when it is running wide open throttle / open loop - it will only run off of preprogrammed presets. under partial throttle this is a different story.

you will need a standalone like the Haltech, a Microtech, etc.

 

[azian6er]

so not even e-manage? What the hell man, this is so ****** queer that mazda made this ecu so hard to tune. Are you sure even e-manage will not work?

--Bryan

 

[InsidiousMSP]

It seems like a lot of people here think open loop is something new Mazda/Ford invented for the Protege. Most ECUs go into open loop at WOT or a certain rpm, from Civics to Skylines. It works the same way, ignoring sensors and using pre-programmed fuel/timing maps. What, since the 80s? Yet they have no problems with using a piggyback fuel controller. Open loop itself does not explain why a fuel controller won't work. It shouldn't have anything to do with that. So what is it exactly that prevents us from using one? I haven't seen anyone explain this yet, I just see, "Uh, you just can't."

 

[jred321]

i would like an explanation too. i'm sure it isn't the open loop that makes it not work correctly, open loop simply ignores the o2 sensor it uses during closed loop to determine if it's rich or not, not every sensor in the engine. in most cars, the ecu uses the signal from the maf/whatever air metering device (along with select other inputs) during open loop to determine where on the pre-programmed map it needs to be. piggybacks work by modifying that signal to the ecu, essentially making it think a different amount of air is going into the engine than truly is and putting it at a different place on that pre programmed map. i don't doubt that most piggybacks won't work, i would just like to know why. even a link explaining why would do for me.

edit: i believe ford probes/mazda mx6's can't use these types of piggybacks as well, so there has to be a reason out there

 

[deckedoutmp5]

if you want control over your s***, you have to use standalone. no one has cracked the ecu. you want fuel control get a haltech, i did, works great stand alone fuel system. you want timing get a e6x. you wont get "control of your s***" for few hundred bucks. if it would have worked, more people would have bought it and used it... it dont, so there fore we use stand alone stuff. its easy. it wont work. there are countless threads on here about it, please use search button. perf is right. and he is one to dick with s*** to try to make it work and still wont work, give it up, it wont work.

 

[Stormtrooper77]

It really is very simple folks. If you don't believe anyone here or are doubting because there is no proof that it won't work, then just go and buy the damn thing and install it. If it works, everyone that said it won't are wrong. If it doesn't, well, your loss. I guess you've found your proof. Now that wasn't hard was it?

I've been here a very short time and I've seen so much bickering it's unbelievable!

 

[InsidiousMSP]

Oh, I see... it won't work, because it... won't work. Damn, the answer was right in front of me. I forgot the Protege is in a world of it's own. It probably uses technology outside of conventional automotive engineering. Explaining it's boundries would just be pointless.

(stoned)

On a serious note, I never implied that it was definitely possible to use a piggyback fuel controller with our stock ecu/maf. I simply asked why it wasn't possible, and no one in this thread has been able to explain it. There's a reason behind everything.

 

[deckedoutmp5]

Oh, I see... it won't work, because it... won't work. Damn, the answer was right in front of me. I forgot the Protege is in a world of it's own. It probably uses technology outside of conventional automotive engineering. Explaining it's boundries would just be pointless.

(stoned)

notice the SEARCH buttom, its been answered. read a bit, you learn alot with research. and its already been answerd in THIS thread by perf.

you just have to accept that your ecu is the way it is.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

you just have to accept that your ecu is the way it is.

Bro that's too technical of an explanation for me. Went right over my head. Please try to explain in simpler terms...

Also show me where Perf or anyone else has said exactly why it won't work. How is our ECU different in design than any other?

 

[deckedoutmp5]

Bro that's too technical of an explanation for me. Went right over my head. Please try to explain in simpler terms...

Also show me where Perf or anyone else has said exactly why it won't work. How is our ECU different in design than any other?

like i said before do a search, seach meaning google, other boards. its out there. ours cant have input in closed loop unless its bypassed in standalone and even then its tricky. if you think it will work go buy it, use it, love it. im done with this thread, im running stand alone, i love it.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

I like how you guys get angry when you can't explain the reasoning behind the ECU's inability to be tuned. It's not like I asked you specifically, I asked anyone if they could kindly explain it, and yet a few feel the need to reiterate that it won't work because "it just won't work." If you don't know, then please, look at another thread and stop pretending like I'm troubling you.

 

[azian6er]

i side with insidious. I mean the whole reason we come to THIS board is to gain knowledge. A lot of knowledge is gained by searching, but then again most of it is attained from other members and interacting with one another discussing things. it seems as if more than half the time we are arguing and bickering and not really finding s*** out about or cars.

I believe if you really know why our ecu's dont work with afcs/emanage/blah blah blah then you, as a member of this COMMUNITY should tell us. The word community in its root means together.

All im saying is that if you know just be nice for once and lend us your opinion. Since when did helping people out become such a terrible thing?

Cant we all just get along??

Oh and i lost my wallet today. s***.

-B

 

[jred321]

i tried searching and all i could find was people using the wrong pinout at first, and then lots of people just saying it won't work, no reasons. anyone with actual reasons?

 

[jred321]

ok, i did some more searching and perf has said:
"cant control the A/F ratio thru the MAF without the unit being calibrated for amperage not voltage"

and
"the meter in the protege is from 1.5v to 5v

1.5 KO
1.8 idle
2.5 2500 rpm
4.6-4.7 WOT"

so since the voltage of the meter is within spec for the s-afc and other piggy backs, wouldn't we simply use ohm's law to figure out the correct resistors needed to get correct amperage signals to the ecu?

 

[Flat Black]

I think what he means is you need something to convert the amperage into voltage for the piggy back to see it.

 

[jred321]

voltage=current(measure in amps)*resistance

 

[Flat Black]

1. The same current flows through each part of a series circuit.
2. The total resistance of a series circuit is equal to the sum of individual resistances.
3. Voltage applied to a series circuit is equal to the sum of the individual voltage drops.
4. The voltage drop across a resistor in a series circuit is directly proportional to the size of the resistor.
5. If the circuit is broken at any point, no current will flow.

 

[Flat Black]

Is it a series or parallel cicuit?

 

[jred321]

if the same current were flowing at all times, then how would the maf measure things in amps, since it is always going to be the same? so if the maf is measuring in amps, it must be getting varying amps or else the measurements would always be the same.

 

[Flat Black]

A Parallel circuit is one with several different paths for the electricity to travel. It's a river that has been divided up into smaller streams. However, all the streams come back to the same point to form the river once again.

The parallel circuit has extremely different characteristics than a series circuit. For one, the total resistance of a Parallel Circuit is NOT equal to the sum of the resistors (like in a series circuit). The total resistance in a parallel circuit is always less than any of the branch resistances. Adding more parallel resistances to the paths causes the total resistance in the circuit to decrease. As you add more and more branches to the circuit the total current will increase. Why? Well remember from Ohm's Law that the lower the resistance, the higher the current.

A Parallel circuit has certain characteristics and basic rules summized here:

1. A parallel circuit has two or more paths for current to flow through.
2. Voltage is the same across each component of the parallel circuit.
3. The sum of the currents through each path is equal to the total current that flows from the source.
4. You can find total resistance in a Parallel circuit with the following formula:

1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 +...
Rt = R (t)otal