Air/Fuel Ratio Questions

FlyinHawaiian

Member
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Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
Hey, I've been putting it off for a very long time, but I think I need to get a wideband O2 sensor and a SAFC-II and tune my beast. I have a couple of questions though:

-What is the optimal A/F ratio that the car should be running at all times?
-Should this increase for track use?
-How low can I safely get it for economical driving?
-Which SAFC(s) will actually work with our ECUs since they are nearly un-crackable?
-What else should I know regarding tuning my car?

Thanks in advance guys!

-Jeff
 
sorry bro that question is outta my league. I would try checking with the Mazda service manual.
 
Well, I just order, but have yet to install the SplitSecond AFC...and a W/B gauge...So that's one option, but you will have to tune your own base map, which shouldn't be that hard...I'm hoping.

Check out www.Splitsec.com and print and read the tutorial, it's a great resource to get to know about tuning. Also search the web..there is information out there....If I recall correctly the ideal ratio is 14.1:1, which translates into 14.1 parts air to burn 1 part gas..ideally...not real world..Most N/A tuner go for like 13:1 and boosted go for a leaner mix around 12:1 or so..

The closer to the ideal you tune it the more effectively you will burn the gasoline equalling more power and better fuel economy. You may even run even leaner like 15:1 to 16:1 during cruising, which will give you even better fuel economy...It's much more complicated than I make it sound, and I have no experience....Yet...
 
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Air-fuel ratio (AFR) is the mass ratio of air to fuel present during combustion. When all the fuel is combined with all the free oxygen, typically within a vehicle's combustion chamber, the mixture is chemically balanced and this AFR is called the stoichiometric mixture (often abbreviated to stoich). AFR is an important measure for anti-pollution and performance tuning reasons. Lambda (λ) is an alternative way to represent AFR.
For gasoline fuel, the stoichiometric air/fuel mixture is approximately 14.7 times the mass of air to fuel. Any mixture less than 14.7 to 1 is considered to be a rich mixture, any more than 14.7 to 1 is a lean mixture - given perfect (ideal) "test" fuel (gasoline consisting of solely n-heptane and iso-octane). In reality, most fuels consist of a combination of heptane, octane, a handful of other alkanes, plus additives including detergents, and possibly oxygenators such as MTBE (Methyl tertiary-butyl ether) or ethanol/methanol. These compounds all alter the stoichiometric ratio, with most of the additives pushing the ratio downward (oxygenators bring extra oxygen to the combustion event in liquid form that is released at time of combustions; for MTBE-laden fuel, a stoichiometric ratio can be as low as 14.1:1). Vehicles using an oxygen sensor(s) or other feedback-loop to control fuel to air ratios (usually by controlling fuel volume) will usually compensate automatically for this change in the fuel's stoichiometric rate by measuring the exhaust gas composition, while vehicles without such controls (such as most motorcycles, and cars predating the mid-1970's) may have difficulties running certain boutique blends of fuels (esp. winter fuels used in some areas) and may need to be rejetted (or otherwise have the fueling ratios altered) to compensate for special boutique fuel mixes. Vehicles using oxygen sensors enable the air-fuel ratio to be monitored by means of an air fuel ratio meter.
Lean mixtures produce cooler combustion gases than does a stoichiometric mixture, primarily due to the excessive dilution by unconsumed oxygen and its associated nitrogen. Rich mixtures also produce cooler combustion gases than does a stoichiometric mixture, primarily due to the excessive amount of carbon which oxidises to form carbon monoxide, rather than carbon dioxide. The chemical reaction oxidising carbon to form carbon monoxide releases significantly less heat than the similar reaction to form carbon dioxide. (Carbon monoxide retains significant potential chemical energy. It is itself a fuel whereas carbon dioxide is not.) Lean mixtures and rich mixtures, when consumed in an internal combustion engine, both produce less power than does the stoichiometric mixture. Similarly, lean mixtures and rich mixtures return poorer fuel efficiency than the best mixture. (The mixture for the best fuel efficiency is slightly different to the stoichiometric mixture.)
 
Alright nice, I had already knew what an a/f ratio was and had an idea about the effects either way (rich/lean), but thanks for the info regarding where ours should be.

So I guess the only question now is weather the Split-second AFC will actually work with our (my) ECU. Let me know how yours turns out and I might be following shortly!
 
Regarding this matter, I read on this thread http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123662440 in the 21st post that you could turn the screw in the stock FPR to manually lean out the mixture. I have never read that anywhere as it stands now...anyone want to chime in on this one?

Wow... good freakin catch in that thread... I'll try it out tonight. I just put a header on the car, so now would be a good time to try it...
 
i'd make certain you can measure your A/F ration after any adjusment...didn't know the stock fpr was adjustable?
 
I don't have any gauges...is there any way I can look for it by the way my car reacts? What should I be looking for?
And I had no idea either...I saw it and was hoping this was one of those rare absolutely free mods that can actually make a difference on a car...

i'd make certain you can measure your A/F ration after any adjusment...didn't know the stock fpr was adjustable?
 
Um, I wouldn't try that. I need to do some more research before I actually go and do it. Also, I'd say borrow or invest in a wideband O2 sensor with an external guage where you can adjust the screw and immediately check what your A/F ratio is.

At least that's what I'm gonna do...
 
Um, I wouldn't try that. I need to do some more research before I actually go and do it. Also, I'd say borrow or invest in a wideband O2 sensor with an external guage where you can adjust the screw and immediately check what your A/F ratio is.

At least that's what I'm gonna do...

good advice!
 
That's a pretty expensive mod just to do that though...I think I'll just stay put and wait and see what the more experienced guys here have to say...I'll start a new thread in this forum linking to this one to see what others might say, so as to get a bigger backing/denying of this screw adjustment.

Edit: here is the link to this thread --> http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3281417#post3281417
 
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That's a pretty expensive mod just to do that though...I think I'll just stay put and wait and see what the more experienced guys here have to say...I'll start a new thread in this forum linking to this one to see what others might say, so as to get a bigger backing/denying of this screw adjustment.

Honestly, if you plan on doing ANY engine modifications, its a good bet to get a wideband O2 sensor. You need one to tune any SAFC (Super Air Fuel Controller) or any other type of fuel management system. If you turn the screw (which I couldn't find last night, but I need to look in the daylight too) and you make it run too lean, you can burn up your sparkplugs or if you run the car hard, melt internals. If you run it too rich, you can gum up your plugs, injectors and other things. Just be careful.

On a side note, as you are getting a conformation / rebuttal of the FPR tune, I was told by a fairly reliable source that the ECU will adjust around anything you do to it. I don't know it for fact, but I do know that we have a stubborn as f*ck ECU...

Let me know what you come up with.
 
^I suppose this is true, although I have no idea what a SAFC is...I do know about the downsides of playing with the A/F ratio, which is why I was looking for more expert opinions on this matter before I screw up (pardon the pun) my pride and joy.

From what some research has told me (whether with the manual FPR trick being mentioned here, or with other aftermarket FPRs), the trick is to only move it within the tolerance of what the ECU will consider normal...if you go beyond this limit, the ECU will see it and adjust...if you go towards the limit but don't actually exceed it, it should be fine. Lots of fine tuning, but that's the name of the game isn't it? :)
 
From what some research has told me (whether with the manual FPR trick being mentioned here, or with other aftermarket FPRs), the trick is to only move it within the tolerance of what the ECU will consider normal...if you go beyond this limit, the ECU will see it and adjust...if you go towards the limit but don't actually exceed it, it should be fine. Lots of fine tuning, but that's the name of the game isn't it? :)

It truly is the name of the game, only thing is, where are the limits and how do you know you've exceeded them? I still maintain that you need a Wideband O2 sensor to make sure that you're within safe limits and get the finest of tuning. You don't actually install it on your car and can use it for as many vehicles as you want, so you might want to consider going splitsies with a friend or two to bring the cost down. You won't be disappointed...
 
^How does a wideband O2 sensor work when compared to a wideband gauge? This sounds like a good idea, but have no idea how to test this.
 
Well the sensor gets plugged into one of the O2 ports, not sure which one since I haven't played with it yet, but I'm guessing the 1st. When you drive around on it, it'll broadcast the exact A/F ratio on the guage. From there, you know what you're A/F ratio is at idle, cruise and WOT (wide open throttle) and where there may be rich or lean spots along your powerband. You can then adjust through an SAFC, which essentially tricks your ECU's fuel map into false readings to add / subtract fuel to get the exact A/F ratio desired, OR if the screw thing works, you can get a line of best fit through a little bit of trig and adjust through that (if it is at all possible).

This is pretty much as much as I know about it as I am still learning too... I'll keep you informed as I know more info. If anyone else can shed some light onto this topic, it would be greatly appreciated.
 
I read the post about air/fuel mixtures. I am not technically trained and wondered if anybody has any suggestions or thoughts about the excessively black exhaust pipe on my MS3? I have driven performance cars for 40 years and never seen so much soot although the dealer tells me it is OK. I have always looked for a mid-charcoal color as an ideal color. I do use the car at full rpm and load on the track several times a year, ( I instruct with the BMW and other clubs at Lime Rock). I am using the Mazda Speed cold air intake but the soot was also visible before I had this fitted, everything else is stock.

Any ideas?
 
I read the post about air/fuel mixtures. I am not technically trained and wondered if anybody has any suggestions or thoughts about the excessively black exhaust pipe on my MS3? I have driven performance cars for 40 years and never seen so much soot although the dealer tells me it is OK. I have always looked for a mid-charcoal color as an ideal color. I do use the car at full rpm and load on the track several times a year, ( I instruct with the BMW and other clubs at Lime Rock). I am using the Mazda Speed cold air intake but the soot was also visible before I had this fitted, everything else is stock.

Any ideas?

When did you get the car? How many miles are on it? What sort of driving are you doing? The only thing I can think of is that because its wintertime, the car will naturally run a bit richer because of the colder temps and the denser air. Its better to be running too rich than too lean, so excess soot is not necessarily a terrible thing.
 
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