ACK! i killed my car :'(((

Good post!

Agreed, 100%

Even on dry pavement, a skilled driver can stop in shorter distances in a normal car, than in an ABS equipped car, as the ABS is constantly releasing the brakes to get the tire to regain traction.

For the average, unskilled motorist, ABS is a real plus, as it allows steering while the brakes are locked, which is what the average person does, in any panic situation.

Don
 
mp5 said:
I don't want to start a war or anything but abs on slick surfaces INCREASES stopping distances. It's function is to allow the driver to continue to steer to avoid an accident. On dry surfaces, abs usually does not activate until extremely low speeds and has little effect on stopping distances. If abs actually provided shorter braking distances, it would be used in racing. If you don't believe me read your owners manual which states that braking distances are increased on cars with abs, or do a search on the web regarding braking distances and abs.
ABS is used in some racing....
But you're right, the entire purpose of ABS in the first place was to maintain steering control.
Although as ABS improves, we are shortening stopping distances in certain situations. ABS nowadays does not lengthen many stopping distances. On ice, ABS does in fact decrease stopping distance.

It's all about friction (s***, thank you Dr. Marvelous for figuring that out). Our brakes will sieze and break (unlock) at a certain point, based upon the friction coefficient of the pads and the rotors. Similarly, Our tires will sieze and break with whatever the driving surface is at the time. Now, these coefficients are constant (excluding outside factors like temp changes), e.g. the friction coefficient of our brake pads at 120 degrees Fahrenheit is "n". "n" is a constant. Same for tires, rotors, etc.

Say you're driving on a wet road. You've got two equations running. YOu've got the interaction between brakes and rotors, and that between tires and the road. The first relationship nets the better stoppage (obviously). Once your wheels lock up, that first equation is out of the picture, it's just tires and road. And it's very easy to cross that like to where the tires break (cut loose) on a wet road, as we all know. The point of ABS is to minimize the situations where the tires break (meaning when the brakes dont lock, i.e. "Anti-Lock Brakes") and we're operating on that second set of numbers only.
The reason why ABS wont decrease stopping distances in most situations is because that coeffecient between the tires and whatever the road conditions are is a constant, which means that no matter what, given the set of variables for that equation (tires and road), the factors stay the same. ABS keeps the tires rolling so we can turn.
However, it must be noted that turning while braking does eat some momentum, as the car is being made to change direction, it takes force to move something from a straight line path (i.e. a body in motion while travel in a straight line until acted upon by another force)
 
fastdrvr23 said:


I got one for you then buddy... I was hit head on in 1993 by a drunk driver in a dodge aries. I was driving my parents brand new Nissan Maxima... The came into my lane at ~45 MPH while I was going ~50. I had just enough time to move my foot from the gas to the brake when he hit. He died on the scene, and I was only bunged up a little. Without the airbag and seatbelt, I would have been killed... I only ended up with a broken left ankle, broken right foot, Right collar bone, 2 ribs on the right side, and my left wrist. I had two really bad looking black eyes from the airbag, but s***, at least I could see at all... lol Without the airbag, the steering column would have hit me with enough force to break my back or neck really easily. All the junk above sounds like a lot, but if I could show a picture of the car, it sounds like nothing... Luckily the guys passenger side headlight hit the middle of the front of my car, since I did manage to swerve slightly. The passenger side seat in my car was touching the dash. Anyways, I think airbags are a good thing. They may not be for a smaller person(ie. kids), but they saved my life.

Anyways, sorry you got into a wreck BlackP5, at least no one was hurt... Good luck in getting it fixed.

Just like with anything you have to take the good with the bad. Airbags do have their weak points, but after hearing a story like this, I'm glad they are installed in my car. I just hope the deploy when I actually need them :D
 
This may sound like a really stupid question...
Think about this scenario: say I'm driving an automatic P5 (or any other cars) equipped with ABS, and all of a sudden I have to come to a complete stop on the highway, e.g. there's an accident ahead or something like what BlackP5Lethr came across, should I
1) keep it in 'D' and step hard on the brake OR
2) shift to 'N' and step hard on the brake

I thought if you shift to neutral it will stop adding more 'power' into the motion of the car right away, but it also sounds like the wheels may lose traction on the road and put the car out of control...

Anyone has a good answer for this? I guess it really depends on the specific situation, but generally speaking how should this type of stuff be handled?

Btw, excuse me if I'm not using the correct technical terms for motion, traction etc. I'm not a pro in this type of stuff. :p
 
BuckyP5 said:
This may sound like a really stupid question...
Think about this scenario: say I'm driving an automatic P5 (or any other cars) equipped with ABS, and all of a sudden I have to come to a complete stop on the highway, e.g. there's an accident ahead or something like what BlackP5Lethr came across, should I
1) keep it in 'D' and step hard on the brake OR
2) shift to 'N' and step hard on the brake

I thought if you shift to neutral it will stop adding more 'power' into the motion of the car right away, but it also sounds like the wheels may lose traction on the road and put the car out of control...

Anyone has a good answer for this? I guess it really depends on the specific situation, but generally speaking how should this type of stuff be handled?

Btw, excuse me if I'm not using the correct technical terms for motion, traction etc. I'm not a pro in this type of stuff. :p

Putting the car into Neutral would actually make the car take longer to stop. With the gear selector in D you have the added benefit of engine braking. If you were going to do anything put it in a lower gear (ie. 2nd) as you are slowing to stop. If you were driving a manual transmission it may make more sense, because of the fact that the auto. is keeping it in the highest gear possible most of the time...

A good example would be to drive your car at 30MPH... Let off the gas while the gear selector is in D. Watch how long it takes to slow down... After that, stop, put the selector in 2nd, get up to 30MPH and let off the gas... It will slow down a great deal faster.
 
fastdrvr23 said:


Putting the car into Neutral would actually make the car take longer to stop. With the gear selector in D you have the added benefit of engine braking. If you were going to do anything put it in a lower gear (ie. 2nd) as you are slowing to stop. If you were driving a manual transmission it may make more sense, because of the fact that the auto. is keeping it in the highest gear possible most of the time...

A good example would be to drive your car at 30MPH... Let off the gas while the gear selector is in D. Watch how long it takes to slow down... After that, stop, put the selector in 2nd, get up to 30MPH and let off the gas... It will slow down a great deal faster.
Hm. never thought about that. Wonder if it works. I would think that the torque converter would minimize engine braking. I mean, an auto can sit braked at idle in gear with little resistance.
But it makes sense. However I wonder if, when you brake hard, since the quickness of the stop from brakes would negate any help from the motor, if it would make a difference.

But to answer the q, I dont believe it would ever have an advantage, especially in a crisis. The time it would take you to reach down and shift into the proper gear would just take some of your reaction time, and too much concentration. And could cost you your life.
 
pictures?

don't worry your not the only one, this kinda stuff happens just make sure you fix it up good with a reliable body shop, this was mine...

fdae674d.jpg


you'll get it fixed and it should look like this! (pic was taken after it was all fixed)

fd4922d1.jpg
 
fastdrvr23 said:


Putting the car into Neutral would actually make the car take longer to stop. With the gear selector in D you have the added benefit of engine braking.


i thought when you let off the gas in an auto, it automatically engages the clutch (like when coasting)
 
heiduk said:
<p><b>this is horrible, the c ar is 2 months old and so is my license. WHY GOD, WHY!?!?!?!</b>

<p>WHY!?!?!?! You were driving on a slick road too close to a large vehicle in front of you, that's why. Because braking distance increases geometrically relative to speed, such that it takes about 4 times the distance to stop at 60mph that it does at 30. Sorry you twisted your car, but you should have payed attention in physics class and driven more safely. It sure is a bad way to learn a harsh lesson. Sorry.

It was a hypothetical question, so stop being a jackass. Maybe you should have "paid" attention in English so you could at least spell correctly before you act like such a dick. Also, stop saying sorry after you know you are rubbing it into someone's face. Let me ask you this, how many car lengths are you supposed to be behind a car traveling at 60 mph? How about 50 mph? Answer those two questions and I'll stop returning the favor of being a dick to you.
 
pr5owner said:
pictures?

don't worry your not the only one, this kinda stuff happens just make sure you fix it up good with a reliable body shop, this was mine...

Hey Pr5owner, it's really ironic but my car looked exactly like that when I rear ended a truck. It's kinda scary in a way, but I mean it exactly looked like that.
 
blynzoo said:
. However I wonder if, when you brake hard, since the quickness of the stop from brakes would negate any help from the motor, if it would make a difference.

I see what you are saying... I guess my experience with an auto. is different than most. My trucks Transmission (One of only 2 automatics that I've owned) has a different converter, shift kit, and different valve body. When you are slowing down it downshifts really agressively, and slows the vehicle down immensly when braking...

Also, like you mentioned previously, if it weren't for the lumpy idle from the cam, I could probably go 20MPH without ever hitting the gas. :)

Finally, what Blynzoo said is very true about keeping the gear selector in gear in a crisis... The way I said it before was kind of misleading..
 
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