A simple YAY or NAY?

[1sty]

no they sux!

 

[shinzen]

Looks nice, but you will find that running several subs in parallel will give you way more bass more cone area=tons more bass...... especially for that kind of money- you could hook up a decent amp and a couple of subs in a box for that cash

 

[shinzen]

did you just say eclipse over alpine??? Hey first, isn't the lower end eclipse line still made by aiwa?

 

[1sty]

did you just say eclipse over alpine??? Hey first, isn't the lower end eclipse line still made by aiwa?

WHAT????

For subs I would take a eclipse aluminum over any alpine sub. I would take the alpine deck over the elcipse though.

 

[shinzen]

I dunno man, the alpine subs may not hit as hard, but the perfect subs are very very clean- depends on whether you want sq or spl.... I choose sq every time

 

[shinzen]

Of course I would run the phoenix gold before either one of them...

 

[1sty]

I dunno man, the alpine subs may not hit as hard, but the perfect subs are very very clean- depends on whether you want sq or spl.... I choose sq every time

Perfect subs?
ALpine makes type R, Type S and Type E subs.
Infinity makes the perfects.

Also the Alpines have not impressed me with SQ either.

 

[DaViper]

NOOOO! Never spend anything near that amount of money on something made by Kenwood. For that kind of money you can go with JL audio or something really nice like that. Kenwood stuff is not that great and can easily be beaten by its competitos in value.

-DaViper

 

[servoeyes]

Of course I would run the phoenix gold before either one of them...

PG isn't exactly what it used to be...their stuff *was* better, but a lot of it is just crap now. They still make *some* decent stuff, but it isn't cheap and the SQ isn't exactly great.

As for subs...the Type-R is nothing next to Eclipse's subs, IMO. As for as HU, Alpine wins...but both are nice. As far as AMP SQ...I think I have one of Eclipse's cheapest amps. You can probably get it for around 200$ if you bargain right. It has the SQ of a JL / series...for around 200$ less! The Alpine can not compare...

 

[NetGuy]

I would have to agree with Servoeyes on that one...PG did a good job of getting their name out with some awesome products about 8 years ago...since then it seems to have been sliding a bit. In my opinion, the best bang for the buck these days (assuming the "all I listen to are bass tracks" wasn't sarcasm) would be a JL W7 (10 or 12) with a 500/1 or a 1000/1 amp on the sub. It's a tad on the expensive side, but as with all things...you get what you pay for.

That Kenwood sub looks pretty cool, but I'm positive that Kenwood doesn't put the same kind of serious R&D into their designs as a company like JL does.

 

[shinzen]

Perfect subs?
ALpine makes type R, Type S and Type E subs.
Infinity makes the perfects.

Also the Alpines have not impressed me with SQ either.

My bad, was I had infinity on the brain- must stop my fingers from typing before I think- stop, no stop! you bastards!!!...

 

[shinzen]

hmmm maybe I should check out some of pg's newer stuff, the last subs I looked at were made out of some bizarre material (kevlar maybe?) and could handle tons of power with great sq- combined with one of their higher end amps, that system sounded awesome- but my info is a couple of years old- stuff changing too fast....

 

[chuyler1]

Yes...things do change fast...but you always get what you pay for, its just a matter of whether your ears can tell the difference. If you only listen to bass tracks you are not going to tell the difference between a JL amp and a PG amp of the same power rating. Most of what the companies are pushing today is flash and options (crossovers, digital meters, chrome heat sinks, etc) anyway.

Read the magazines (spend an hour in Borders or Barnes&Noble if you're too cheap to buy them). Specifically pay attention to the comparison reviews of items you're in the market for. Also watch for the SQ winners in the competition articles (not the show stopper feature installs or SPL competitors, that's all flash). You will start to see certain products used by many winning competitors. (For example, a few years ago, Image Dynamics IDQ Subs were all the rage, everyone had them) If they can win trophies with the products they use, I'm sure you can make a decent system with them...HOWEVER, do not asume just because someone won the Nationals with a Kenwood system that Kenwood's bottom of the line coax speakers will sound better than Alpine's, JL's or Eclipse's. But if a review puts the exact model you're in the market for on top...its a pretty good investment.

 

[NetGuy]

chuyler1 brings up a good point (maybe not on purpose...just reminded me of something). Don't forget to check out lightly used gear. I'm VERY happy with my current system...it only cost me about $1300CDN total, and I've ended up with some of the best gear money can buy...

(2) a/d/s/ RS12 12" subs - $200
Zapco Studio 204 - $150
Zapco Studio 300X - $150
Phoenix Gold EQ230 (with TBA-t) - $300
Alpine 1310 Head Unit
Alpine 5957s Changer
Alpine 3900 Fluency DAC - $500 for Alpine system

I'm guessing that any of you fellow "old skool" car audio guys will agree that older gear is often still the best around...especially considering the prices you can get this stuff for.

PS: The Alpine stuff is for sale.

 

[chuyler1]

Zapco is a brand I always forget about...their prices are outragous...but the quality is there.

I love my Clarion 9575rz... External DEQ, the works. No need for a new unit, the only thing its missing is mp3 playback....but....why spend money on a high-end HU and play MP3s on it?

I've also got a MTX Thunder 500D waiting to go into my P5. Its a 2000 model I think, before the rash of crappy amps that burn out. It took me a while to find one in good condition on ebay. Its rated at 250watts (4ohms@12.5v) but puts out 775 (2ohms@14.4v). I have a matching Thunder 302 110x2 (4ohms@14.4v) to go with it. The pair cost me about $200 total after s&h.

Speakers, however, I will not buy second hand.

 

[pluto316]

Zapco is a brand I always forget about...their prices are outragous...but the quality is there.

I love my Clarion 9575rz... External DEQ, the works. No need for a new unit, the only thing its missing is mp3 playback....but....why spend money on a high-end HU and play MP3s on it?

I've also got a MTX Thunder 500D waiting to go into my P5. Its a 2000 model I think, before the rash of crappy amps that burn out. It took me a while to find one in good condition on ebay. Its rated at 250watts (4ohms@12.5v) but puts out 775 (2ohms@14.4v). I have a matching Thunder 302 110x2 (4ohms@14.4v) to go with it. The pair cost me about $200 total after s&h.

Speakers, however, I will not buy second hand.

The new generation of MP3 codecs are worth a second look, you can still get enough compression for 3+ whole CDs on one with OH MAN SO FREAKING CLOSE TO CD QUALITY COME ON PEOPLE YOU'RE IN A CAR YOU CAN'T TELL sound quality.

 

[shinzen]

Sorry pluto- you are WRONG! With the right system in your car or home you can easily identify those tracks that are laid down on mp3 instead of cd audio- since you so kindly asked, I will give you the basic sonic differences- Theoretically, we can only hear to 17khz However, the fact is that the reason that vinyl sounds better than cd is because of the harmonics that the notes beyond the range of our hearing combining with those that we can hear create a truly different sound- basic analog vs digital. Now with that being said- your standard cd will go to about 22khz- (still inferior to a true analog signal) and now you want to cut it back to 17.5khz? The loss of harmonics are very noticable on a quality system.

 

[pluto316]

Sorry pluto- you are WRONG! With the right system in your car or home you can easily identify those tracks that are laid down on mp3 instead of cd audio- since you so kindly asked, I will give you the basic sonic differences- Theoretically, we can only hear to 17khz However, the fact is that the reason that vinyl sounds better than cd is because of the harmonics that the notes beyond the range of our hearing combining with those that we can hear create a truly different sound- basic analog vs digital. Now with that being said- your standard cd will go to about 22khz- (still inferior to a true analog signal) and now you want to cut it back to 17.5khz? The loss of harmonics are very noticable on a quality system.

Oh, I know all about the joys of a non digital setup, it's very interesting. (Other than every time you actually play a record you are losing data, LAME.) Now with the more advanced codecs that jump from one level of compression to another the loss isn't as huge as it once was in MP3 compression. On a correctly ripped track I don't get any "waves" in the highs (cymbols) or any added noise. This is when I am listening with Awia headphones on on my PC. Maybe I don't have the super fancy high end car audio system you might have, but the imaging in a car blows ass... And all this on top or road noise, I feel sorry for you if your ears are that well trained that you can hear that loss and have to live with the pain of less than perfect sound quality.




KEEP IN MIND: This is being said by a person who pretty much only listens to Operation Ivy, Minor Threat, the Misifts (pre Misfits 20), Gorilla Biscuits, etc which are bad recordings AT BEST. And using low quality rips for these songs (with lots of hiss) produces terrible rips and it has been in my experience that the newer codecs are the bee's knees.

 

[chuyler1]

I listen to alot of jazz...I play trumpet... mp3s, all that I have heard, compress the sound of a trumpet into a flat, thin sound.

...granted in the days of Louis Armstrong the recordings weren't that great anyway, but if you put in a Wynton Marsallis, Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra, CD...every inflection is on the recording, and should come out my speakers/headphones...mp3 takes that away.

Not only does mp3 take away the high end, it also takes away the detail. If I could hear 3 trumpets, side by side, on a stage before compression, it will come out sounding like one (maybe two trumpets) all standing in the same spot...you won't be able to identify their unique sounds from one another.

Now, rap music...rip away...there isn't enough quality sound that anyone will notice a difference. Hard Rock, you might notice a flat sound from the cymbal crashes but the music is so loud anyway its hard to pick out the details in the first place. Rock, it depends on the song. Ok, I'm done, off to work.

 

[shinzen]

Oh, I know all about the joys of a non digital setup, it's very interesting. (Other than every time you actually play a record you are losing data, LAME.) Now with the more advanced codecs that jump from one level of compression to another the loss isn't as huge as it once was in MP3 compression. On a correctly ripped track I don't get any "waves" in the highs (cymbols) or any added noise. This is when I am listening with Awia headphones on on my PC. Maybe I don't have the super fancy high end car audio system you might have, but the imaging in a car blows ass... And all this on top or road noise, I feel sorry for you if your ears are that well trained that you can hear that loss and have to live with the pain of less than perfect sound quality.




KEEP IN MIND: This is being said by a person who pretty much only listens to Operation Ivy, Minor Threat, the Misifts (pre Misfits 20), Gorilla Biscuits, etc which are bad recordings AT BEST. And using low quality rips for these songs (with lots of hiss) produces terrible rips and it has been in my experience that the newer codecs are the bee's knees.

I will definitely accept that the music you listen to may not have as great a quality as some other recordings out there, but even with rap, techno and most rock you can tell a difference. When you go to a recording studio, all of the sampling is done at 44khz- by chopping that down you are definitely losing a lot of music. take some of your recordings down to your local high end stereo shop and put it into one of their good systems- listen to it and tell me that the aiwa headphones sound just as good- I am all over the place with the music I listen to- that's why sq is so imporrtant to me- the real problem of course is the amount of money it costs..