Off Topic "A penny saved is a penny earned"

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Mod edit: This thread started as an off-topic discussion in the What did you pay for your CX-5? thread. Please keep it civil and respect the opinions of others, even if you disagree.

The older I get, the less tolerant I am to messing around trying to save the last dime on any purchase, even though I am basically a cheapskate at heart.
Many people on here have posted their mind-set of, 'I was tires', it wasn't worth a 3 hour drive', I was mostly happy with deal" AND my favorite - 'It wasn't worth my time to argue anymore'.

Yes, you have to put a value on your time and out of pocket expense, but here's my pushback on the 'It wasn't worth my time to argue anymore', or 'driving 3 hours' arguements... I don't know about you, but while I make decent money, I don't make $500/day, so if I have to spend a days worth of energy to save $500 I'll do it. YMMV. Let's say I said to you "I'll pay you $500 for 8 hours of driving, making phone calls, and talking to the manager" That's more than a days pay for most people. - I'd work 8 hours to $500, which is the same $500 in your pocket as saving $500. - yes, after you consider the cost of travel and such. - oh, do it on a Saturday and you don't miss work

A corollary pointing out the opposite......, people will wait for 45 minutes for a free stack of pancakes on pancake day. But I'll bet you if you asked that same person "hey, I'll pay you $5 to stand over there for 45 minutes", they'd look at you like you're nuckin' futz. I'll always be amazed at what people will or wont do to save or earn money.

I already know that most disagree with me on the effort to save money.
 
Many people on here have posted their mind-set of, 'I was tires', it wasn't worth a 3 hour drive', I was mostly happy with deal" AND my favorite - 'It wasn't worth my time to argue anymore'.

Yes, you have to put a value on your time and out of pocket expense, but here's my pushback on the 'It wasn't worth my time to argue anymore', or 'driving 3 hours' arguements... I don't know about you, but while I make decent money, I don't make $500/day, so if I have to spend a days worth of energy to save $500 I'll do it. YMMV. Let's say I said to you "I'll pay you $500 for 8 hours of driving, making phone calls, and talking to the manager" That's more than a days pay for most people. - I'd work 8 hours to $500, which is the same $500 in your pocket as saving $500. - yes, after you consider the cost of travel and such. - oh, do it on a Saturday and you don't miss work

A corollary pointing out the opposite......, people will wait for 45 minutes for a free stack of pancakes on pancake day. But I'll bet you if you asked that same person "hey, I'll pay you $5 to stand over there for 45 minutes", they'd look at you like you're nuckin' futz. I'll always be amazed at what people will or wont do to save or earn money.

I already know that most disagree with me on the effort to save money.
A penny saved is a penny earned.

It helps to think of your purchases as “hours at work, away from home/family etc.” Putting a value on your time helps you make an accurate comparison, like you said. There was a good commercial about this playing a while back.

Dealers know, and take advantage of the fact, that most people are uncomfortable negotiating and they want you to get tired and give up to get it over with. Shopping around is just a different type of work, but it still requires effort.

However, I believe some people find this process a lot more uncomfortable than just being at work in their normal routine, so they would rather work 2 days than spend 1 day buying a car. I enjoyed shopping around because it was pretty much what I do for any major purchase. IMO most people just want to see the price, click and buy, then forget about the whole thing.

Either way, the more you know the better off you are in this process, but gathering the info takes effort.
 
Well..I don't completely agree with you. In theory you are right that a penny saved in arguing is a penny in your pocket. But at the end of the day Y M M V
You are not aware of an individual's external factors and conditions like age, health, family, work-life balance , financial situation and all of those contribute to the negotiation factor. Somebody in their 20s might have the energy to drive 900 miles to get a car, while somebody nearing retirement might value time and health more than a few extra $$ in savings. Again if you have a day job where you are idling away your time and not giving 100% to it with free pay stubs, then you have all the time in the world to call dealers all day long and negotiate. Some work remote, some work in high pressure situations and given the balance between time and work conditions, they negotiate what works best for them.
Personally I am conscious about my earnings and not extravagant in my spending. I commenced my search and wrapped up in 2 weeks with 10% off MSRP. Having done all my research across 8 states and probably 25 odd dealers I ended up with average savings, nothing great But that's where where the balance comes off.
My job is pretty demanding and I could have saved another $700 overall from a dealer situated 800 miles away OR waited until big holidays to get 15% off MSRP as I knew it was on the horizon, so I lost about may be $1000 if I assess like that . . If I wait until Q1 2022 end to get a 2021 CX-5, I could have gotten lucky with 20% off MSRP but then you have to draw the line somewhere.
So we need to be respectful of other's statements. If you don't like it, fine.. ignore it. But you find something positive, then adopt it as a good practice rather than critiquing somebody. That's my philosophy.
 
If money is so tight that you need to spend days, or weeks, looking for $500 in savings, maybe you shouldn't be buying a new vehicle. There are plenty of online tools available to do some research and get a pretty decent deal. Will it be the best? Most certainly not, but it's where I've learned to draw the line. I like to live comfortably and not have to worry about the little things.

Semi related - I get a kick out of the people that save $35k and pay cash for their vehicle, when interest rates are at historic lows. Why would you front all that money when you can borrow it at 0%? If you invested the money for the life of the loan, you would be way ahead.
 
Really, if you have to save $500 you shouldn't be buying a new car? I work too hard for my money. I look at it the other way, I can afford to buy a new car because I have saved $500 everywhere I can over my life
 
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Really, if you have to save $500 you shouldn't be buying a new car? I look at it the other way, I can afford to buy a new car because I have saved $500 everywhere I can over my life
I think you missed the obvious, but I'll leave it at that. :)
 
Being a neophyte at purchasing new vehicles, I posses little useful advice. But I do have an observation on negotiating. It seems to be an art each person has to varying degrees. I’d compare it to a skill like playing the piano or playing basketball. Some can do it well, and some have no skill. All the rest of us fall somewhere in the middle. If we all were PhDs in negotiating the lowest car price, the dealers would all just go to fixed prices and we’d have to retire as former pros.
 
Being a neophyte at purchasing new vehicles, I posses little useful advice. But I do have an observation on negotiating. It seems to be an art each person has to varying degrees. I’d compare it to a skill like playing the piano or playing basketball. Some can do it well, and some have no skill. All the rest of us fall somewhere in the middle. If we all were PhDs in negotiating the lowest car price, the dealers would all just go to fixed prices and we’d have to retire as former pros.
@P-51 Lover - You are absolutely right.
I did use fair amount of logical and analytical negotiations with some dealers using the concepts of ending inventory , FIFO, year end inventory liability , inventory driven costs, devaluation and depreciation to bargain a 2020 CX-5..even watched "Kevin Hunter's" YouTube channel ..but trust me these sales people might not be academically savvy, but salesmanship is ingrained into them to bait n switch in most cases and unconvincingly ignore your arguments to get to their profit line.
All it came down to was a good referral and pitting them against other dealers ..

You are right. If we all knew the mantra to steal a deal, then cars would be fixed price commodity.
 
I don't value my time as related to my salary...I can't work more or less and make more or less. I value my free time as exponentially more valuable than my work time. It is much more limited, and of much more importance.
 
@P-51 Lover - You are absolutely right.
I did use fair amount of logical and analytical negotiations with some dealers using the concepts of ending inventory , FIFO, year end inventory liability , inventory driven costs, devaluation and depreciation to bargain a 2020 CX-5..even watched "Kevin Hunter's" YouTube channel ..but trust me these sales people might not be academically savvy, but salesmanship is ingrained into them to bait n switch in most cases and unconvincingly ignore your arguments to get to their profit line.
All it came down to was a good referral and pitting them against other dealers ..

You are right. If we all knew the mantra to steal a deal, then cars would be fixed price commodity.

It comes down to numbers and we don’t know the numbers the dealer sees. The way I see it youre not going to convince a business to sell you a car at a loss or no benefit to them. The best you can do is keep lowballing until someone takes your offer, or if they don’t up the price until they do. Its like battleship until you hit on the lowest price you can get.
 
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Semi related - I get a kick out of the people that save $35k and pay cash for their vehicle, when interest rates are at historic lows. Why would you front all that money when you can borrow it at 0%? If you invested the money for the life of the loan, you would be way ahead.
I bought my last car for cash, and don't agree with your assessment.
Interest rates are at an all time low, yes, but it works both ways. Your money these days earns you squat in interest. Unless you are an investment guru and have the time and knowledge to invest in stocks etc., then putting your money into a savings account or the like will get you nothing.
You also need to see where people are in their lives when making a blanket statement like that.
I was lucky to be in a position where I had no personal debt (still don't), and some extra money in the bank. Plus I didn't want a loan hanging over my head for the next 5-7 years.

As for 0% interest, there's no such thing.
No-one, and I mean no-one, is going to let you borrow $35,000, and be nice to you and let you pay it back over the next 5-7 years with no interest. When you borrow money, there's a fee involved. Period. It's hidden. It's there. That's how they make money.
Do you know of any bank or financial institution that lends you money at 0%? Of course not.
Car dealers don't either. They are not that nice.
When I was shopping for my car, as soon as I mentioned cash, the price dropped.
The so called 0% financing price is always higher. It's a marketing ploy, nothing more.
 
I bought my last car for cash, and don't agree with your assessment.
Interest rates are at an all time low, yes, but it works both ways. Your money these days earns you squat in interest. Unless you are an investment guru and have the time and knowledge to invest in stocks etc., then putting your money into a savings account or the like will get you nothing.
You also need to see where people are in their lives when making a blanket statement like that.
I was lucky to be in a position where I had no personal debt (still don't), and some extra money in the bank. Plus I didn't want a loan hanging over my head for the next 5-7 years.

As for 0% interest, there's no such thing.
No-one, and I mean no-one, is going to let you borrow $35,000, and be nice to you and let you pay it back over the next 5-7 years with no interest. When you borrow money, there's a fee involved. Period. It's hidden. It's there. That's how they make money.
Do you know of any bank or financial institution that lends you money at 0%? Of course not.
Car dealers don't either. They are not that nice.
When I was shopping for my car, as soon as I mentioned cash, the price dropped.
The so called 0% financing price is always higher. It's a marketing ploy, nothing more.
Yep, now it was $1000 incentive to not use the 0.9% promo they had going on. I think the guy you responded to was referring to investing in equities or something other than savings. Even then youd have to make around $2k in 4 years, to break even then anything over would be profit. Again its all about the numbers. If you have an investment that pays you back more than $1000+0.9%, with no risk of losing the money, then sure.
 
It comes down to numbers and we don’t know the numbers the dealer sees. The way I see it youre not going to convince a business to sell you a car at a loss or no benefit to them. The best you can do is keep lowballing until someone takes your offer, or if they don’t up the price until they do. Its like battleship until you hit on the lowest price you can get.

Yes. Some salesmen were kind enough to acknowledge what I presented and opened up on external environment factors affecting pricing of cars.

But if haggling and low balling works for you, then by all means go for it, if you haven't made a purchase yet. Good Luck !
 
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But if haggling and low balling works for you, then by all means go for it, if you haven't made a purchase yet. Good Luck !
It worked out for me. Knowing their mindset didn't help. All I need to know is if they want to accept my offer or not. It doesn't do anything for me to know their reasoning, especially if I'm looking to buy something today. Same goes for them, there were plenty of dealers who told me to come back with more money, regardless of whatever other offers I had. So it just takes trial and error, not an understanding of the car retail business.
 
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I bought my last car for cash, and don't agree with your assessment.
Interest rates are at an all time low, yes, but it works both ways. Your money these days earns you squat in interest. Unless you are an investment guru and have the time and knowledge to invest in stocks etc., then putting your money into a savings account or the like will get you nothing.
You also need to see where people are in their lives when making a blanket statement like that.
I was lucky to be in a position where I had no personal debt (still don't), and some extra money in the bank. Plus I didn't want a loan hanging over my head for the next 5-7 years.

As for 0% interest, there's no such thing.
No-one, and I mean no-one, is going to let you borrow $35,000, and be nice to you and let you pay it back over the next 5-7 years with no interest. When you borrow money, there's a fee involved. Period. It's hidden. It's there. That's how they make money.
Do you know of any bank or financial institution that lends you money at 0%? Of course not.
Car dealers don't either. They are not that nice.
When I was shopping for my car, as soon as I mentioned cash, the price dropped.
The so called 0% financing price is always higher. It's a marketing ploy, nothing more.
I know this is a loaded example, but if you invested that $35k in the S&P 500 5 years ago, you would now have just about 2x that. I was not referring to savings accounts, since they obviously track the low interest rates.
 
I know this is a loaded example, but if you invested that $35k in the S&P 500 5 years ago, you would now have just about 2x that. I was not referring to savings accounts, since they obviously track the low interest rates.
Hindsight is 20/20. If you would have done it in 2001 and held for 10 years you would have lost money. Let's say we're at a peak now and the next 4 years trends downward, you keep paying your car note and maybe 30% of the 35k you invested gets washed away. So you just paid 30% more for that car, which is also depreciating? If you were confident the market would keep shooting up, sure it makes sense to take "free" money and invest it. I'm sure there are HF doing that right? On 35k with 0.9% financing for 60 months, you'll pay only $800, plus the 1000 incentive you give up = $1,800 to break even.
 
Hindsight is 20/20. If you would have done it in 2001 and held for 10 years you would have lost money. Let's say we're at a peak now and the next 4 years trends downward, you keep paying your car note and maybe 30% of the 35k you invested gets washed away. So you just paid 30% more for that car, which is also depreciating? If you were confident the market would keep shooting up, sure it makes sense to take "free" money and invest it. I'm sure there are HF doing that right? On 35k with 0.9% financing for 60 months, you'll pay only $800, plus the 1000 incentive you give up = $1,800 to break even.
It would have made sense in 2001 to pay cash. Today is a different story, due to these historically low rates. At the very least, you can consider the money a low interest loan.

This is a subject that brings out many differing opinions. I'm just sharing mine. :)
 
Yup, looking back is always easy. I mean, who knew two years ago we'd be in the second year of a pandemic? You just never know.
I took an early buyout from my Company 15 years ago, thinking I'd bank/invest my pension and retirement savings plans. Annual gains were in the double digits.
Things went great until the collapse of 2010. I never fully recovered from that.
Fortunately, we are still in a healthy situation, but it could have been a lot better.
Like I said earlier, at this stage in my life, I don't want to borrow money or take on a loan, for any reason. If I can't afford to buy something outright, then I don't buy it.
 
>pandemic
It's not a pandemic, it's a "Casedemic". Ever notice that the media only talks about x number or new cases today, and they never talk about daily deaths? That's because the death rates are so extremely low. That wouldn't scare people, and we simply can't have that, now can we?
 
>pandemic
It's not a pandemic, it's a "Casedemic". Ever notice that the media only talks about x number or new cases today, and they never talk about daily deaths? That's because the death rates are so extremely low. That wouldn't scare people, and we simply can't have that, now can we?
500k+ dead last year is too low? GTFO
 
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