This is going to be long-winded, but if you have kids, or are thinking of having them, it may be worth your time.
My wife and I are in the family way. No, she's not pregnant,(again) nor is that in the near future. We currently have a 1 year old, and all the stuff that's associated with toting one around. Before we had the boy, I couldn't see why so many parents feel that they need a mini-van or some giant SUV to tote around one kid. I thought "It's a baby, not an armored platoon, why do people need an entire military supply convoy worth of stuff to support this little thing?" But now I understand.
For us, it's not a daily-use kind of problem. We can fit his stroller in the Protege sedan or P5 with no trouble and we've already gotten his diaper bag down to something the size of a large purse. For us, it's a road-trip problem. Our families and most of our friends are in the D.C. area, we're in Georgia and we're traveling back and forth 2-3 times a year. At Christmas we packed the sedan trunk and one side of the back seat for the drive up, but on the way back, we had all of the kid's gifts to bring back, and there just wasn't any room. Ultimately, my wife took the boy and his car seat and flew to Florida to visit her grandparents and I loaded up the entire car, including the whole rear seat and front passenger seat, and drove home solo.
Traveling for a week with a kid requires the following things:
Clothes, toiletries, shoes, etc. for my wife and I. All the usual crap, really.
Clothes for the boy.
The stroller. This takes kind of a lot of room.
The Pack and play. This is a portable crib for him to sleep in and, when folded, is roughly the size of an Indian elephant. It is actually longer than the trunk of the Protege is wide, except at the back of the trunk behind the wheel wells. This stupid thing fills roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the damn trunk. It is absolutely necessary for most trips, though both my parents and my wife's parents have purchased one, so for our most recent trip, we didn't need one.
Diapers, food and toys for the road. Generally, we don't need to pack diapers or baby food for the week, as we can get them wherever we're going.
In July, we're going to the Beach for a week, then back to D.C. for my sister-in-law's wedding. We will need the pack and play for the time at the beach, plus all the usual crap, beach stuff, wedding stuff, etc.
We've reached critical mass.
So, yesterday, we went mini-van shopping. Our priorities are as follows:
1. We want to be able to load up the back area with a ton of crap for the drive to our destination, then unload and haul a bunch of people.
2. We'd like captain's chairs in the middle row. No great reason for this, we just prefer that seating arrangement.
3. To accomplish goal #1, we need the rear-most seat to easily get out of the way of cargo, without having to remove it and leave it at home.
4. Reliable.
5. Affordable.
6. Not too horrific to drive. It can't feel like I'm driving a school bus, and it can't feel huge. I hate automatic transmissions, but the Mazda5 is the only people hauler around with a 5-speed. However, we're going to use this thing primarily on the highway, and once you've gotten a manual car up to 5th gear and engaged the cruise control, it's practically an automatic anyway.
7. Cruise control. An absolute must.
8. Reasonable gas mileage, at least on the highway.
On our Christmas trip, we looked very seriously at buying a Mazda5, but decided it wasn't going to work out for us. Buying a new vehicle just doesn't make financial sense for us right now, plus the 5 is clearly suited to hauling people or stuff, but not both. So we started trying to find a used Mini-van that we can pick up as a third vehicle.
Being a huge Mazda geek, I hoped a first generation ('89 to '98) MPV would work out for us. I like the smaller size, RWD, and the fact that it could be used as a tow vehicle, should I ever get to buy a track car. Unfortunately, it has the same advantages and just the same disadvantages as the Mazda5. We looked at one last night, and though the price ($2800) was right, it has room for people or stuff, just like the Mazda5. In fact, I'd say the 5 has more room.
We looked at Chryslers, Fords, 1st and 2nd gen. Toyota Previas, 1st and 2nd gen Nissan Quests, a Mercury Villager, an Olds Silhouette, and a Saturn Relay.
The early Nissan quests, Mercury Villagers, (same van) Chryslers, and Fords, all failed requirement #3, as the rear-most seats folded, but didn't drop into the floor or flip forward, and basically remained totally in the way. I think all of these brands have addressed this problem by now, but we can't afford a new van, so that's not relevant.
The new Quest is an awesome piece of kit, and everything behind the dash is brilliant. The rear-most seat drops into the floor, as is the norm now, and the middle row seats drop down and forward such that you can have a basically flat floor from front to back without pulling any seats. The dash is funky with the instruments located in the middle like in an Echo, and the HVAC and radio controls placed in an odd Starship Enterprise-styled center console. Sadly, we can't afford one of these, though if we could, I might just have to get used to the odd dash, 'cause the rest of the van is really nice.
The new Toyota Sienna is also very nice, and very much out of our budget.
I left the house with no intention of even looking at a domestic mini-van. Knowing that my budget was probably going to require a vehicle with over 100,000 miles, I didn't want to gamble my vacation bliss on something that was already on it's last legs. I just trust the imports to last much longer, even though most of the "import" mini-vans are made in the states now anyways.
Despite this bias, the first van we looked at was a newer-style Oldsmobile Silhouette. There is a small nostalgia connection here for me, as the family car when I was a kid was a 1970 or '71 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible. That car started the convertible obsession for me, and I remember it pretty fondly. Anyway the Olds was a damn nice van. The rear seats didnt drop into the floor, but in 2000, when this was made, only the MPV had that feature, and the seats in the Olds did fold and flip forward, making for a huge amount of room in the back. However, the dash and all the controls looked and felt cheap. The wipers and cruise control were integrated into the turn signal stalk, making for way too many controls in one place, and making the cruise almost totally unusable. The price was pretty good, even at Carmax, and these things are available pretty cheap from many private sellers online. I was very much surprised how much I liked the Oldsmobile. I'm still not inclined to go with a GM product, though, and that brings me to my next surprise.
The Saturn Relay may be one of the ugliest vehicles I've ever seen, but once you're inside, it's harder to see the ugly. Sure the steering wheel is nasty, but the instrument cluster and dash are the nicest I've ever seen in a GM vehicle. The interior arrangement is great with really nice features and good space, but they are still too new and too expensive, and I'm not sure you could pay me to drive something that ugly anyway.
I tried to go look at a second generation ('00-present) MPV, but there weren't any on the used lots we went to, and the Mazda dealership we stopped in at was closing down and didn't have one open for us to look at. I think I'd be pretty happy with an '00 or '01 MPV LX or ES, but I've also seen that they had some serious transmission and alternator issues. We may hit the Mazda Dealer here in Athens tonight and see what we can find.
The stand-out of the day, and the one I think we're going to focus our search efforts on, is the 1st gen. Toyota Sienna. It's a bit smaller than some of the others, more on par with the new MPVs than with the domestics. The rear seats fold and flip forward, leaving a ton of room for stuff without having to leave them at home. Seating comfort and leg room is good in all seats, which we couldn't say for some of the others. Reliability is typical Toyota, meaning that with a few exceptions, they'll probably run forever. Styling is bland, but inoffensive, as with most Toyotas. They're available with captain's chairs in the middle row, cruise control is standard, crash test ratings are really good, and several people have said they can get 450 miles on a tank of gas. They've been around since 1998, meaning that some of them are actually affordable, and there are quite a few out there for sale. My hope is to find one in white or another light color with tan cloth or leather interior, so that it will be cooler here in the Georgia heat. I'm not generally a fan of leather, but the kid makes a mess with his snacks in the car, and leather is easier to wipe down.
So, if you stuck with me through all of this, thanks for reading. Let me know if you've done similar comparisons, and what you think. Once I've gotten a fair look at the newer MPV's, I'll update.
My wife and I are in the family way. No, she's not pregnant,(again) nor is that in the near future. We currently have a 1 year old, and all the stuff that's associated with toting one around. Before we had the boy, I couldn't see why so many parents feel that they need a mini-van or some giant SUV to tote around one kid. I thought "It's a baby, not an armored platoon, why do people need an entire military supply convoy worth of stuff to support this little thing?" But now I understand.
For us, it's not a daily-use kind of problem. We can fit his stroller in the Protege sedan or P5 with no trouble and we've already gotten his diaper bag down to something the size of a large purse. For us, it's a road-trip problem. Our families and most of our friends are in the D.C. area, we're in Georgia and we're traveling back and forth 2-3 times a year. At Christmas we packed the sedan trunk and one side of the back seat for the drive up, but on the way back, we had all of the kid's gifts to bring back, and there just wasn't any room. Ultimately, my wife took the boy and his car seat and flew to Florida to visit her grandparents and I loaded up the entire car, including the whole rear seat and front passenger seat, and drove home solo.
Traveling for a week with a kid requires the following things:
Clothes, toiletries, shoes, etc. for my wife and I. All the usual crap, really.
Clothes for the boy.
The stroller. This takes kind of a lot of room.
The Pack and play. This is a portable crib for him to sleep in and, when folded, is roughly the size of an Indian elephant. It is actually longer than the trunk of the Protege is wide, except at the back of the trunk behind the wheel wells. This stupid thing fills roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the damn trunk. It is absolutely necessary for most trips, though both my parents and my wife's parents have purchased one, so for our most recent trip, we didn't need one.
Diapers, food and toys for the road. Generally, we don't need to pack diapers or baby food for the week, as we can get them wherever we're going.
In July, we're going to the Beach for a week, then back to D.C. for my sister-in-law's wedding. We will need the pack and play for the time at the beach, plus all the usual crap, beach stuff, wedding stuff, etc.
We've reached critical mass.
So, yesterday, we went mini-van shopping. Our priorities are as follows:
1. We want to be able to load up the back area with a ton of crap for the drive to our destination, then unload and haul a bunch of people.
2. We'd like captain's chairs in the middle row. No great reason for this, we just prefer that seating arrangement.
3. To accomplish goal #1, we need the rear-most seat to easily get out of the way of cargo, without having to remove it and leave it at home.
4. Reliable.
5. Affordable.
6. Not too horrific to drive. It can't feel like I'm driving a school bus, and it can't feel huge. I hate automatic transmissions, but the Mazda5 is the only people hauler around with a 5-speed. However, we're going to use this thing primarily on the highway, and once you've gotten a manual car up to 5th gear and engaged the cruise control, it's practically an automatic anyway.
7. Cruise control. An absolute must.
8. Reasonable gas mileage, at least on the highway.
On our Christmas trip, we looked very seriously at buying a Mazda5, but decided it wasn't going to work out for us. Buying a new vehicle just doesn't make financial sense for us right now, plus the 5 is clearly suited to hauling people or stuff, but not both. So we started trying to find a used Mini-van that we can pick up as a third vehicle.
Being a huge Mazda geek, I hoped a first generation ('89 to '98) MPV would work out for us. I like the smaller size, RWD, and the fact that it could be used as a tow vehicle, should I ever get to buy a track car. Unfortunately, it has the same advantages and just the same disadvantages as the Mazda5. We looked at one last night, and though the price ($2800) was right, it has room for people or stuff, just like the Mazda5. In fact, I'd say the 5 has more room.
We looked at Chryslers, Fords, 1st and 2nd gen. Toyota Previas, 1st and 2nd gen Nissan Quests, a Mercury Villager, an Olds Silhouette, and a Saturn Relay.
The early Nissan quests, Mercury Villagers, (same van) Chryslers, and Fords, all failed requirement #3, as the rear-most seats folded, but didn't drop into the floor or flip forward, and basically remained totally in the way. I think all of these brands have addressed this problem by now, but we can't afford a new van, so that's not relevant.
The new Quest is an awesome piece of kit, and everything behind the dash is brilliant. The rear-most seat drops into the floor, as is the norm now, and the middle row seats drop down and forward such that you can have a basically flat floor from front to back without pulling any seats. The dash is funky with the instruments located in the middle like in an Echo, and the HVAC and radio controls placed in an odd Starship Enterprise-styled center console. Sadly, we can't afford one of these, though if we could, I might just have to get used to the odd dash, 'cause the rest of the van is really nice.
The new Toyota Sienna is also very nice, and very much out of our budget.
I left the house with no intention of even looking at a domestic mini-van. Knowing that my budget was probably going to require a vehicle with over 100,000 miles, I didn't want to gamble my vacation bliss on something that was already on it's last legs. I just trust the imports to last much longer, even though most of the "import" mini-vans are made in the states now anyways.
Despite this bias, the first van we looked at was a newer-style Oldsmobile Silhouette. There is a small nostalgia connection here for me, as the family car when I was a kid was a 1970 or '71 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible. That car started the convertible obsession for me, and I remember it pretty fondly. Anyway the Olds was a damn nice van. The rear seats didnt drop into the floor, but in 2000, when this was made, only the MPV had that feature, and the seats in the Olds did fold and flip forward, making for a huge amount of room in the back. However, the dash and all the controls looked and felt cheap. The wipers and cruise control were integrated into the turn signal stalk, making for way too many controls in one place, and making the cruise almost totally unusable. The price was pretty good, even at Carmax, and these things are available pretty cheap from many private sellers online. I was very much surprised how much I liked the Oldsmobile. I'm still not inclined to go with a GM product, though, and that brings me to my next surprise.
The Saturn Relay may be one of the ugliest vehicles I've ever seen, but once you're inside, it's harder to see the ugly. Sure the steering wheel is nasty, but the instrument cluster and dash are the nicest I've ever seen in a GM vehicle. The interior arrangement is great with really nice features and good space, but they are still too new and too expensive, and I'm not sure you could pay me to drive something that ugly anyway.
I tried to go look at a second generation ('00-present) MPV, but there weren't any on the used lots we went to, and the Mazda dealership we stopped in at was closing down and didn't have one open for us to look at. I think I'd be pretty happy with an '00 or '01 MPV LX or ES, but I've also seen that they had some serious transmission and alternator issues. We may hit the Mazda Dealer here in Athens tonight and see what we can find.
The stand-out of the day, and the one I think we're going to focus our search efforts on, is the 1st gen. Toyota Sienna. It's a bit smaller than some of the others, more on par with the new MPVs than with the domestics. The rear seats fold and flip forward, leaving a ton of room for stuff without having to leave them at home. Seating comfort and leg room is good in all seats, which we couldn't say for some of the others. Reliability is typical Toyota, meaning that with a few exceptions, they'll probably run forever. Styling is bland, but inoffensive, as with most Toyotas. They're available with captain's chairs in the middle row, cruise control is standard, crash test ratings are really good, and several people have said they can get 450 miles on a tank of gas. They've been around since 1998, meaning that some of them are actually affordable, and there are quite a few out there for sale. My hope is to find one in white or another light color with tan cloth or leather interior, so that it will be cooler here in the Georgia heat. I'm not generally a fan of leather, but the kid makes a mess with his snacks in the car, and leather is easier to wipe down.
So, if you stuck with me through all of this, thanks for reading. Let me know if you've done similar comparisons, and what you think. Once I've gotten a fair look at the newer MPV's, I'll update.
