"2.0 L P5 runs better cold
- Thread starter Rusty
- Start date
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
the difference in dropping the thermo by 5 deg is probably minimal. and by the way, i certainly wouldnt push the car while cold or cool.
it probably feels stronger because the engine is cool and therefore the air etc is cool so it's actually burning slightly more oxygen.
there are aftermarket thermostats available, a few people have them, but i dont know the results
it probably feels stronger because the engine is cool and therefore the air etc is cool so it's actually burning slightly more oxygen.
there are aftermarket thermostats available, a few people have them, but i dont know the results
Roywhitep5
Member
- :
- 2007 350z
cold air is good
Turbo Matty P
Banned
cooler temp thermostats are great for warm climates like here in alabama. The SHO is VERY suceptable to power loss at high temps so keeping everything as cool as possible really helps make power. I would say the same is happeneing to your P5 prior to full warm up. I've found that every car runs a little peppier in the AM when it's cooler than at noon when it's 93degrees in the shade. I'm not sure if I would use a cooler thermostat on a P5 unless it was boosted a good bit and run in traffic at idle for extended periods of time. Either that or a race-only car.
Rusty....try these:
www.outlawengineering.com
phenolic spacers
more people on this board need to take advantage of these things!
www.outlawengineering.com
phenolic spacers
more people on this board need to take advantage of these things!
Turbo Matty P
Banned
I've heard of using them on bigger engines, but they claim 3.3hp and 4lb/ft on a 2.0L FS motor. Thats pretty damn good for $100. I'll be looking into them shortly.
i have installed 4 of them on the KLZE V6 cousins of ours....best bang for the buck...and instant gratification
Turbo Matty P
Banned
I've done several mods on several cars before, but 3hp isn't a gain. You could lose/gain three horsepower dpending on weather, weight of car, wind direction and speed etc....I think that would be a good mod to make if you plan on doing several things at once, but you won't notice 3hp in daily driving. 3hp won't lower your 1/4 mile times....Now on a fully prepped motor ever bit helps. This is where it will do the most good. If I need to pull my intake manifold off for porting or powdercoating I will install these, but I have no plans of pulling the intake off for 3hp.
Now, that may appear as a negative post. It's not. Just pointing out that while the mod does make power it's probably not the best way to spend $100.
Now, that may appear as a negative post. It's not. Just pointing out that while the mod does make power it's probably not the best way to spend $100.
Turbo Matty P
Banned
I don't think the gains caused by phenlonic spacers is due to heat loss. In fact, I'm not real sure how it would even create a loss of heat. I think disconnecting the coolant flow from the TB would be the biggest help. The way these add power is by extending the intake runner length. Longer intake runners create more lowend power, hence why the torque curve is shifted over to the left 50rpms. By adding a .25" spacer between the head and intake and a .25" spacer between the TB and intake you've effectively added an extra half inch to the air flow. The old school big block V8 guys use to do this to make some extra power. On my 67 Mustang it has a 1" spacer and it adds noticeable power, but only because it's carbbed. Giving it the extra length allows it to atomize the fuel more completely and creates better burn properties. Since the injectors are right at the very edge of the intake manifold I don't think a .25" spacer is going to allow much more atomization. Now if it was a 1" spacer that would be a little different. These aren't hard to install, ever pull off your intake manifold before?? Just find a cozy spot to lay across the fender and hugh the motor.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i've removed the coolant hoses to and from the TB. easy mod. no noticeable gains, but i'm sure every little bit helps.
DooMer_MP3
Member
Turbo Matty P said:
I think the main idea with these things is to separate the head and intake manifold with a material that doesn't conduct heat very well. Obviously, the head gets extremely hot, and then heats up the intake manifold, and then the intake piping. Basically, as air enters, it gets heated up through the intake piping and manifold. The spacers are supposed to stop this. I've read how people say the manifold/piping is cold to the touch with these installed.
Chris
Turbo Matty P
Banned
huh, I can't imagine .25" being a big enough gap to cool off metal like that, but I have been proven wrong in the past! Good luck!
its not the size of the material...its the compound itself. The thermal barrier that it creates is the key.
Take a quick look at the www.mx-6.com and www.probetalk.com boards.
Between the two boards...we are talking about hundreds of units sold. These things have been around for years...mid 90's if I am correct.
Take a quick look at the www.mx-6.com and www.probetalk.com boards.
Between the two boards...we are talking about hundreds of units sold. These things have been around for years...mid 90's if I am correct.
Turbo Matty P said:
---------------------------------
A little thermodynamics goes a long way. Some materials have shocking conductivity characteristics. A tile from the space shuttle can be held to a torch until it's white hot. As soon as you can shut off the torch the tile can be held in the palm of your hand. That takes nerve, but the tile will be at room temperature as fast as you can touch it.
Not that the Phenolic spacers are the same thing, but with some of those exotic molecular arraingements, a quarter inch can be plenty of space.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Rusty said:
That has to do with specific heat of the material...It takes less energy to heat it up, and it releases energy as heat very quickly...A more common comparison is that of iron and aluminum...If you apply a given amount of heat energy (in Joules or KJ) to a certain mass of aluminum it will absorp the heat faster than that of an identical mass of iron...So the aluminum heats up faster...But on the other end the aluminum will loose the heat energy faster than the iron...So it cools faster...
Phenolic spacers work a little differently...As mentioned above they combine a very very high specific heat index with a poor heat energy conductive property (which overall is caused by the specific heat properties)...so in short it takes a ton of energy to heat it up, and it is even harder for that material to disperse the energy evenly throughout the entire material's mass...This is getting to chemisty in depth I think...
Look at it this way...The energy source is the side of the head...On a normal FS engine, that energy is quickly dispersed into the intake manifolds runners (for arguments sake we will say this is the only heat source...normally it is not becuase of the hot ass coolant running through the TB, but we will say that isn't present)...this causes the intake charge of air (which has a low specific heat) to be heated by the intake runners quickly...that hurts power by making the air less dense...these phenolic spacers provide a barrier between the intake manifold's runners and the head...To my understanding they work by absorbing the heat energy of the head very poorly...It absorbs a lot of heat energy, but does not increase in temperature as much as the runners did before (by the materials it is constructed of)..But not only does it absorb the heat poorly, it also doesn't distribute it very well througout its entire mass...So the first couple layers of the material touching the head heat up a good bit, but the heat doesn't travel well to the side touching the runners...Overall this drastically decreases manifold heat soak in increases air charge density...The air is only heated once it enters the head itself, rather than starting to get heated when entering the runners...
www.probesport.com has some info on them, and also sells them...the info I provided was more than what I found there a few years ago, but we did a lot of work with similar devices in some chemistry classes...They may work a little differently than I mentioned, but they do not simply make the runners longer...
troublemaker
Member
what you think eliminate the egr fitting tha conect to the manifold or header then it not send hot air to the system .
