'02 P5 - clutch on the floor even after bleeding

[CervantesX]

Hey,
So I was out driving, had a couple shifts where I had to push the clutch further down than usual, thought it was just me, then soon after I shifted and the clutch stuck to the floor. Had it towed back to my place, and it looked like the clutch line had gone, there was fluid all around it even though I can't see a break. So I went out, got a new hose from the dealer, took the old one off, put the new one on, snugged it up, (finally) got the hose on the bleeder screw on the slave, cracked it open, and I've been pumping the clutch up and down for what feels like an hour, and it's still sitting on the floor. I've been keeping the reservoir maxed. The mason jar that I put an inch or two of fluid in is now almost full, and I've been through a bottle of dot4. I've got one of those "one man bleeder kits" that's essentially a one way valve. I can see a few really tiny bubbles in the hose, but for the most part it seems like it should be back to normal. If I lift lightly on the pedal it returns, but on its own it just sits.

My understanding is that if I'm bleeding it right, the pedal should start to be harder to push and the hydraulics should start pushing it up on it's own. What am I missing here?
I don't see any leaking around the slave, master, or new clutch line. Is there something else I should be checking? This car is my job, I need to get it up and running asap or I'm pretty boned.

Thanks,
Cx

 

[MrGiggles]

Check and see if the slave is at the end of its travel. Might be a bent clutch fork or release bearing problem.

Was the reservoir empty before you took the line off? That would point to a hydraulic issue.

 

[CervantesX]

I'll go take a look at the slave.

As for the reservoir, that's the weird thing, it seemed pretty full, even though my engine bay near the clutch line was soaked in fluid.

It's got some pressure, because if I nudge the pedal up it does the rest on it's own. It's not falling down like I'm led to believe it would if there was no resistance in the system at all.

 

[CervantesX]

Ok, so I'm not sure what the actual travel on the slave should be, but I can wiggle the end that attaches to the fork about 1cm by hand. If I pump the clutch several times, it seems like that makes it harder to push in by hand the first time, but after that it's back to what could technically be described as "pretty loose" in that 1cm or so of travel. I don't see any leaks or squirts anywhere while I do this, and I haven't seen any leaks while vigorously bleeding the clutch system. I'm not sure where it normally rests, but it seems "retracted" towards the passenger side. The rubber boot on it is mostly folded up and not stretched out like I assume it does when the rod is pushing towards the drivers side of the engine bay.

I should add that I can change through all my gears fine, and aside from a lack of pressure the clutch pedal motion is normal (it doesn't feel like there's no spring, or no resistance at all)

I've got a slave and master on order for tomorrow, I'm in a time crunch so I'll try just the slave first and see if maybe an internal seal went.

 

[JDM323J48]

Ok, so I'm not sure what the actual travel on the slave should be, but I can wiggle the end that attaches to the fork about 1cm by hand. If I pump the clutch several times, it seems like that makes it harder to push in by hand the first time, but after that it's back to what could technically be described as "pretty loose" in that 1cm or so of travel. I don't see any leaks or squirts anywhere while I do this, and I haven't seen any leaks while vigorously bleeding the clutch system. I'm not sure where it normally rests, but it seems "retracted" towards the passenger side. The rubber boot on it is mostly folded up and not stretched out like I assume it does when the rod is pushing towards the drivers side of the engine bay.

I should add that I can change through all my gears fine, and aside from a lack of pressure the clutch pedal motion is normal (it doesn't feel like there's no spring, or no resistance at all)

I've got a slave and master on order for tomorrow, I'm in a time crunch so I'll try just the slave first and see if maybe an internal seal went.

Replace both if you already have them, at least you'll know they're new and not likely to fail you.

 

[pcb]

Replace both if you already have them, at least you'll know they're new and not likely to fail you.

Apparently the "no-name" ones only last a year...

They say OEM is the way to go.

 

[CervantesX]

Update: I changed out the master cylinder and that seems to have it. I have pressure and the slave is moving the fork, so I'll leave it for the night, check for leaks, and then give it a test drive. It didn't come with accessories for a bench bleed and, despite what some folks say on the internet, it isn't practical to bleed it in the car.

So, for people like me who did a bunch of reading up before tackling this, here's a shorthand of my experience:

It's not actually that bad.
Take out the battery and tray, air filter and intake, and the air scoop over the radiator. I have big hands and could mostly reach the slave cylinder bleeder without a lot of trouble, but if/when I replace the slave I'll take out the fans as well. It's 4 bolts and you'll be glad for the room.
The master is to the right of the reservoir. 12mm bolt right next to it is bolt 1.
Bolt 2 is under the dash, next to the brake pedal, between it and the drivers side wall. If you're a big dude like me, expect to be upside down in the drivers seat. I found the best way was to take off the clutch switch (little white box bolted on to the clutch pedal with a 10mm), tuck it away, and then use a 12mm ratchet with an extension. The brass bolt almost looks like it's holding on some of the clutch pedal assembly, but these are all lies.
Once the second bolt is off, the tubes unscrew/slide off, and it comes right out, easy. Bench prime the new one, slide it in, redo everything you undid, don't forget the clutch switch, and prime away with your preferred method. Then give up on that method and go get a vacuum pump, because it really is easier. I imagine brakes will be a dream now. I just spent $60 at Princess Auto for a manual one, you can get them online for 30ish I hear.

Really, an hour or two seems reasonable for this, once you actually know where things are. There's plenty of room in the engine bay for work on it, and aside from that one nut under the dash it's very accessible. So, no need to worry like I did.

As for my specific case, I won't change the slave now, but I'll put it on the list. I just had to do a strut + strut mount unexpectedly last month, and now this has cost me another weekends worth of work because nobody has parts in stock or gives me the right parts or doesn't steal bleeder valves from parts... FML. So I'll return the $140 one to the crap store of crap, and add a new $40ish one to my list of "buy online soon" parts, along with valve gaskets, the other side strut mount, and maybe a new half axle to fix that annoying squeak in my drivers front. Then maybe I'll be able to get to splurge on new wires and packs, straight pipe air, fixing whatever is leaking in the exhaust, a round of sensor cleaning, and tires that don't leak... and THEN maybe I can get the parts list for the tablet radio project that keeps dying because this beast keeps breaking and costing me work....

Being forced into a used car purchase sucks, but at least the mazda has seemed easily fixable so far, once you can find the right post to tell you how. I'm getting a lot of milage out of these forums