Off Topic Rav4 Prime XSE

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RDX Aspec Adv.
I am burning over $300/mo in fuel. I am preparing to transition into a rav4 prime xse to stave the bleeding as gas prices continue to rise. Any compelling reasons not to that I may have glossed over?

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That RAV4 prime is an excellent choice (for your goals), that is if you can find one, and if so, can buy it without paying the excessive dealer mark-ups above MSRP.

I drove a Chevy Volt (similar plug-in hybrid, range extender concept) and loved it. Unfortunately Chevy discontinued the Volt, so I went looking for a RAV4 prime and abandoned the idea after realizing supply -vs- demand was not in my favor.

Went back to the drawing board, and after test driving the Mazda 3 Turbo - bought one as my replacement "fun-to-drive" replacement commuter car for the Volt.

And NO I am not enjoying the gas pump - but am enjoying everything else about my M3 turbo decision.
 
^^ Agreed. If you can find one at a price you're willing to pay, and it fits your needs, why not?

I'm sure you've already come across this thread in your research, but posting it just in case..

Also this..

I'd say, if the test drive checks out, and the price is right for you, go for it.
 
Yeah I am finding my gas bill per month is also on the rise, but not as bad as yours. You have the turbo CX-5 right?

Yeah if it ends up fitting your goals better, not a bad way to go. You could potentially get tax credits with it right?

EDIT: As an aside, the pandemic was pretty bad for oil/gas industry for a while last year (indeed a former employer of mine in that industry layed off 25% of its workforce), but it was nice to fill up my tank for $12-$15.
 
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Yeah I am finding my gas bill per month is also on the rise, but not as bad as yours. You have the turbo CX-5 right?

Yeah if it ends up fitting your goals better, not a bad way to go. You could potentially get tax credits with it right?

EDIT: As an aside, the pandemic was pretty bad for oil/gas industry for a while last year (indeed a former employer of mine in that industry layed off 25% of its workforce), but it was nice to fill up my tank for $12-$15.
Yes, turbo. I only average 27mpg. That said, I've decided I want a rav4 prime xse, so my cx5's days are very numbered. My mind is made.
 
Congrats! Give us a comparison write-up when you get a chance.
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Ill need more time in it, of course, but so far I really like it.

So far, vs my CX5 2019 GT Reserve:

Power is instant and linear. I have not gone WOT in it or even close, because <300mi on it so far, but there is no lag. There is no delay. You press, she go. The CX5's have been some of the laggiest vehicles I've owned. All of the CVT hate just doesn't apply. The throttle is literally an on/off switch if you want it to be, and can be cleanly modulated anywhere in between. Very very direct feel. There is a very lightly notable sensation when EV/HV switches back and forth, but nothing in acceleration, just a harmonic difference as the ICE cranks. It's very well integrated and I have zero criticism of the integration aspect. Also, Toyota eCVT is all planetary gears. Zero belts/chains. It felt very direct! No "rubber band" mess.

The seats! They are bolstered. I mean bolstered like better than my Z06. They slot somewhere between Recaro's in a WRX Sti and CX5 seats. They have support. They are padded. Mazda needs to learn a thing!

The suspension is very well done. Very "calm". My CX5 always felt darty and have a vibration at highway speeds, no matter what tires were on it. It was just super taut...but still had more body roll than this Prime. The CX5 had a lot more feedback through the steering wheel. That is a negative for the RAV, but everything else about the handling has been a positive. It just handles more upscale and I feel like it has higher limits/better responsiveness. I will adjust this opinion over time. Also keep in mind I ran LX25's on my CX5, and CC2 Michelin's on this RAV Prime, which are both excellent tires.

Initially, the tire shine and mould release agent on the new CC2's made the vehicle feel very "meh". I was legit worried until it wore off and I saw how precise it felt in the corners and on transitions. Planted! Overall, I am not one bit disappointed in this vehicle's dynamics vs my CX5. The only thing I will say, is that it DOES feel heavier. You feel the 500# disparity, but it also feels like what it is. LOW. Makes cornering extremely flat. They are different animals though, and you should drive both.



MPG...I ran it in EV/HV mode (least efficient, heavily skews towards ICE use) and still managed 36.5mpg on my way home from the dealer 250mi away.

Interior...I like them both. The RAV is more like a truck, the CX5 was more like a BMW. I can see where people would prefer one over the other depending on taste, for sure, but I like them both.

Visibility...no comparison. Greenhouse is awesome in the RAV.

NVH. It's so hard to tell. Both are extremely good. I would say that the RAV lets in slightly more high frequency noise, but overall the interior dB has got to be very similar. Maybe it doesn't let in more. Maybe it was just the tires and specific roads I was on. It's close enough that I can't say, without having the same tires on both. The CC2's are EXCELLENT, btw. Very quiet and very awesome in all the ways, despite their hyperaggressive looking tread. Both vehicles are very rigid in the chassis department. The CX5 may be slightly moreso, but neither had any rattles or creaks over bumps or uneven pavement. The r4p is still too new to fully appreciate how it is going to agee obviously, though, but initial impression is that its a very sound chassis. Both vehicles feel solid and substantial when opening and closing doors, etc.

Brakes...the RAV seems very sensitive due to regen, but it's not bad. I'm still breaking the vehicle in, so no real comparison, yet.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with the trade. People say the CX5 handles better, but I dispute this. I think it just offers more feedback and feels a bit more "carlike" and that makes people's senses tell them it might, but the RAV felt more balanced, and had less body roll/rebound, and actually a stiffer suspension over bumps, while still isolating them better. It's like comparing a C6 Z06 to ZR1. I have driven both, and the ZR1 feels almost like a sedan vs. the more "racecar" feeling Z06, but when you actually put numbers on the tracktimes...

FWIW, Motortrend's "Figure 8" seems to show this as well, with the R4P completing the figure 8 in 27.0@0.65 while the CX5 turbo model was 27.7@0.61g. I definitely see how this is possible, as the RAV4 Prime seems to have less roll and is better balanced F/R.

Daily livability:
-The R4P has almost an inch more ride height. This will be nice.

-The R4P came with floormats that slot between Mazda USA and Mazda CA. They have raised borders and cover the dead pedal, but I think the 3D Spydermax are nicer.

-The CX5 has more tech in it than all but the $50K R4P XSE with PP. I got XSE+weather. However, the tech in the R4P works better. Android Auto was extremely nice! In my CX5 it was a glitchy POS and I never used it. In the R4P, I was pretty upset because no native NAV unless you spend MOAR! and allegedly, it sucks anyways. The AA in the Rav was intuitive, and MUCH better executed. "Hey google" didn't have to be yelled, either. I could speak in a normal or even quiet tone and activate it. Also, on the way to get my R4P, the NAV in my CX5 sent me into multiple construction 'road blocked' situations. AA did not, on the way home.

-The AWD in the RAV4 Prime is better in daily use. It directs power to all 4 tires even with no slip felt when going up my hill. There is no "slip grip". To be sure, the CX5 caught that slip super fast, but it was there and it did, over time, wear on my steep gravel drive. The Prime? It just walks up it with zero drama, pushing power to all 4 tires via EV. Also, the CX5 is very "surgy". The locking/unlocking of the transmission at 10mph, coupled with the turbo, coupled with the propensity to want to upshift as soon as possible, causes a lot of surge through the drivetrain that causes traction loss. The EV mode and CVT in the Prime have none of this.

The flipside, though, is that under hard driving, the CX5 with its conventional diff manages its power better. It can 50/50 split F/R, while the Rav can manage, at best, a hair under 20% to the rear at maximum boogie. This is something that I think will show up on the track, were you to track them. Daily driving, even aggressively, I don't think this will be an issue as much as it sounds, but it IS why I had some of the grippiest all-season tires put on the vehicle right out of the gate. In track testing it has been shown to understeer under WOT, especially in the wet. This remains my #1 criticism. They should have put the 179hp/199#tq motor in the rear, and the 53hp/89#tq motor in the front with the ICE engine. That said, I am sure there is a reason they didn't, because any idiot can look at those numbers and tell you how it SHOULD go, so there must be something I missed. That said, this remains the drawback that most irks me about the vehicle. WE will see in years to come, functionally, how much it matters.

Keep in mind, this is still the honeymoon phase. I have a mere 250 miles on it. This is all subject to change! But this is my initial impression.
 
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Keep in mind, this is still the honeymoon phase. I have a mere 250 miles on it. This is all subject to change! But this is my initial impression.

Congrats on the R4P! It's been a bit of a long time coming. Appreciate the initial review! The reduced bodyroll and handling characteristics are likely due to the lower center of gravity from the "skateboard" EV platform.

I wanted to ask, did you have any pricing issues when closing the sale? I read about some Ford customers who pre-ordered the new Bronco complaining about their dealers adding thousands of dollars to their pre-order pricing to account for "market adjustment" due to the chip shortage. I wonder if your dealer may have tried to do something similar, given the rarity/demand for the R4P?

Also, just a note RE: your experience with the nav in the CX-5 on your way to pick up the R4P vs. AA on the way home. The CX-5 nav wasn't taking real-time traffic into account, it was only providing the fastest route. I believe AA uses Google Maps for nav, and Google Maps does take real-time traffic into account, and maps are regularly updated as well. This is mainly why I prefer to use Google Maps over the native nav system in pretty much any vehicle.
 
Enjoy. It's always fun when you pick something up that you've been looking forward to. The Prime was on the list of my potentials but they are hard to come by.
 
Congrats on the R4P! It's been a bit of a long time coming. Appreciate the initial review! The reduced bodyroll and handling characteristics are likely due to the lower center of gravity from the "skateboard" EV platform.

I wanted to ask, did you have any pricing issues when closing the sale? I read about some Ford customers who pre-ordered the new Bronco complaining about their dealers adding thousands of dollars to their pre-order pricing to account for "market adjustment" due to the chip shortage. I wonder if your dealer may have tried to do something similar, given the rarity/demand for the R4P?

Also, just a note RE: your experience with the nav in the CX-5 on your way to pick up the R4P vs. AA on the way home. The CX-5 nav wasn't taking real-time traffic into account, it was only providing the fastest route. I believe AA uses Google Maps for nav, and Google Maps does take real-time traffic into account, and maps are regularly updated as well. This is mainly why I prefer to use Google Maps over the native nav system in pretty much any vehicle.
No, the dealer was awesome. Gave me $25K for my CX5 GTR, 2019 with 80K miles on it. It had 73K miles on it when we made t he deal, but 2 months went by. They didn't once try to change the deal. They sold me the Prime at MSRP+$149 doc fee. I bought Toyota warranty 10/125K for $2350. That was a $500 mark-up. I was content with that and even suggested it (They wanted 2850, I told him I'd let him make some money, but that was too much, cut your profit to $500 and I'll buy it, I told them. They did.). They put CrossClimate 2 tires on for me, and mud flaps (Toyota). Billed me $1350 for those things and the labor. Sadly no credit for the old tires, as 235/55/19 is an oddball size (they can't plus-size tires as a dealer of course). All in all, very pleased!
 
Did you take the tires they removed? I would think you could sell them easily on your own and recoup some costs...
 
Did you take the tires they removed? I would think you could sell them easily on your own and recoup some costs...
No, they literally only fit the Q5 and Dodge Journey, lol. Noone with a Q5 is buying those junk tires, and I don't think people who own a Dodge Journey buy tires all at once, usually just as they blow out, lmao!
 
So is your new Toyota RAV4 Prime XSE made in Japan?

Can you feel the difference between RAV4’s electrical-based rear wheel drive and CX-5’s mechanical-based rear wheel drive in AWD system?

Which options do you get? Premium Package? Prime XSE Weather Package? Premium Audio?

Do you need new wiring in the garage to charge the RAV4 PHEV?

Have you tried the full EV mode, and how many miles can it go?

I’m waiting for new Lexus NX Prime coming into the US market as wife has always wanted a Lexus. Or at least a Toyota Venza unfortunately it only has hybrid without plug-in.
 
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