Started the teardown

[Sandawgk5]

So as some may know I have a rod knock in the bottom end. I wanted to get the head off before I ordered any internals to see if I would need to do any block work and order new pistons or not.

Anyway the going is slow, I haven't done much but get the main harness off the top and get the valve cover off. One quick question is it possible to just unbolt the AC and PS and move them out of the way without draining / recovering the AC?

2nd do these cam lobes look ok?





The black "grit" is from my finger. I was seeing if I could feel roughness but it felt smooth, it looks rough though. you can tell by the color of the head I have neglected this motor hence the reason for a rebuild.

Thanks

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

Nobody has any advice?

 

[IshSonP5]

If you unbolt the ac and ps and just zip tie them off to the side, you will be fine. I am not an expert in cams so I have nothing for you for that.

 

[Spiced MSP]

lobes look good to me, I don't see anything out of the ordinary. One lobe I can't tell if it's dirt or not, but other than that, they look ok.

 

[Sandawgk5]

The lobes have a wierd wedge shape right on the tip that seems discolored almost as if it never contacts anything. They don't appear to be scored or blued. The color is consistent across the lobes with the exception of the wedge shapes I mentioned.

Thanks for the input.

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

Got the head off today. The cylinders look pretty good. There appears to be some scuffing but there is absolutely no ring ridge and the cross hatch is still clearly visible. For 136K miles it looks pretty amazing considering how "well" I took care of it.




Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

Also a few of the cam journals that have some scoring? They are big enough that I can catch my nail on them. Here are some bad pics of two of them.



Is this head scrap now? or can I ease the edges and make sure there are no burs and run it?



The cams look fine as well as the tappets.

Thanks for any advice or input

Dik

P.S. I don't know why my pictures only show up as links and not actually in the thread. If anyone can help with that it would be appreciated.

 

[Installshield 2]

...the engine can be pulled relatively easily in these cars. The PS and AC pumps/compressors can be simply unbolted and held out of the way by whatever means after the belts have been removed. The engine, gear box (positive for manuals, not sure about autos), and intake manifold...even with the TB, can all be easily hoisted out with proper lift as single unit.

for most work i just remove everything. After you do it once, its actually very easy. the fuel line 'quick release' things are tricky, but manageable with patience...literally the hardest part is locating and labeling all the connections to the harness...compared to other cars i've messed with, this one is cake...


now on the other hand...doing certain jobs with the engine still in the car...with non-asian hands...ridiculous haha. I know you did a lot of stuff already, just saying...getting the thing the rest of the way out is easy compared to what you've already done. I'd recommend reassembly everything on a stand before dropping it back in...the intake manifold is a bastard with the engine in the car. A lot of people end up getting leaks around the intake gasket when doing it that way, so if you do...go very slow and torque everything exactly as the manual describes.

also, i haven't uploaded pics here for a while...but a Vbulletin change i vaguely remember removed scaling pics into the thread...it just lists them. Did you attach them in your folder? The only way i recall you'll get them to just show up is linking them through another site like photobucket or something. That will introduce even more annoying problems though haha.

head looks fine imo, and some simple honing to the cylinders looks like it would return them to nearly new. How was the clearance? did you check it before you pulled the cams and lifters out?

 

[Sandawgk5]

If you are talking about valve lash I did not do it before the tear down. I wanted to get the head off and check the cylinders for wear. I haven't been able to find the shims anywhere yet.

 

[ihone]

I'm doing a little searching while at work (I have a cush job, so I can help folks find stuff via the interwebz).

***disclaimer*** I did not do this work. I'm simply referencing something I found in the net that may help. Any damage that occurs due to incorrect shims.....you're on your own***
I found this thread that spiked my interest about the valve shims - and possible alternatives in Nissan shims. Same Diameter just different thickness-steps. May prove fruitful:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=471599
It lists the following readout:
Toyota Nissan 27mm Shims
Part# from http://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/
Mazda Part# Z5xx-xxxxx
Shim Sizes 2.75mm--3.00mm Co-Exist on Mazda and Toyota Nissan List

2.00mm - NISK2-00---------------0.07874”
2.05mm - NISK2-05---------------0.08070”
2.10mm - NISK2-10---------------0.08267”
2.15mm - NISK2-15---------------0.08464”
2.20mm - NISK2-20---------------0.08661”
2.25mm - NISK2-25---------------0.08858”
2.30mm - NISK2-30---------------0.09055”
2.35mm - NISK2-35---------------0.09251”
2.40mm - NISK2-40---------------0.09448”
2.45mm - NISK2-45---------------0.09645”
2.50mm - NISK2-50---------------0.09842”
2.55mm - NISK2-55---------------0.10039”
2.60mm - NISK2-60---------------0.10433”
2.65mm - NISK2-65---------------0.10826”
2.70mm - NISK2-70---------------0.10629”
2.75mm - NISK2-75---------------0.10826” Z5Y1-12-541
2.80mm - NISK2-80-----------0.11023” Z5Y2-12-541
2.85mm - NISK2-85--------------0.11220” Z5Y3-12-541 Mostly what I need@ $13.75 for 4
2.90mm - NISK2-90--------------0.11417” Z5Y4-12-541
2.95mm - NISK2-95--------------0.11614” Z5Y5-12-541
3.00mm – NISK3-00 -------------0.11811” Z5Y6-12-541
Z502-12-545 3.052mm 0.12015”
Z502-12-552 3.100mm 0.12204”
Z502-12-558 3.148mm 0.12393”
Z502-12-565 3.196mm 0.12582”
Z502-12-573 3.252mm 0.12803”
Z502-12-579 3.300mm 0.12992”
Z502-12-586 3.348mm 0.13181”
Z502-12-593 3.396mm 0.13370”

Most are 13.75 for a set of 4. Helluva lot cheaper.

--------------
I'll keep searching, but ebay, the link above, and the stealership may be your best options.

 

[Sandawgk5]

Just ordered my rebuild kit from Protege Garage. All that is left is to get the engine pulled and completely torn down and to the machine shop for honing and hot tanking. While I have it out I am going to reseal the transmission and replace all of my heater hoses.

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

Got the engine out today and mostly torn down. Just the oil pump and crank remain in the block at this point. #2 and #3 rods killed the bearings. They didn't spin in the rod but the crank is either scored or it has aluminum deposits on it. I am hoping it will polish out.

I pulled the main caps and checked the journals. The bearings were fine as well as the crank and the thrust surfaces. I didn't mic the thrust since it is being rebuilt but it seemed a bit excessive.

I will get pics up in a bit I am beat and my desk hands aren't used to all of this work anymore.

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

Here are some pics of the crank and rods.

Rod #2 journal

Rod #3 journal

Rod #2

Rod #3

Pan

Disregard the oil in the bucket it is out of my Diesel on this engine. I hung the pistons and rods to let any residual oil drain out of them.

The top and middle rings are free to move but the oil rings on all 4 pistons are locked in place and won't rotate.

Any input on the crank is appreciated. I will be taking it to the machine shop with the block hopefully it will polish out.

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

One more question. Does anyone have any ideas of what would cause this?

It appears as if the belt was pushing out on the cover all of the bots were tight and there was no play in the pulleys for either the crank or the water pump.

Dik

 

[Installshield 2]

great work man.

As far as the timing belt cover, mine rubbed in that area too after a timing belt change. I never got any oil or coolant (or whatever that is) on mine, though...it simply didn't sit perfectly...but eventually rubbed enough of the plastic cover away that it no longer made any noise (only did it for a few miles)...

as far as the oil rings...The FS is notorious for those locking, and worse...the piston drain holes get clogged, and eventually scraped oil has no where to go...It only really results in some oil consumption (especially when cold)...but is annoying...its a common problem on engines with high stroke (just adds more surface area for the oil rings to clean), and especially engines with high stroke, and short little rods (which increases piston acceleration...therefor heat)...the FS is nearly at the top of both lists...

Imo these engines have heat problems related to the press fit wrist pins and the articulation of the piston on them. A real fix is to use aftermarket rods with floating pins, or machine the stock rods and pistons to incorporate the floating variety...but that will take some very detailed measurements on your part, and a competent shop to get the parts right. Allowing the pin to rotate around in there (rather than the only letting the piston rotate on it) is generally better for oiling, and results in less oil being slightly burned and 'caked' at the pin locations...eventually walking up to the oil rings, and starting the bigger issue. For an other wise stock FS though, this isn't at all necessary, and you'll easily get 150,000 miles again with just stock replacements...it also can be kept in check by regular oil changes and good filters...

 

[ccrunner2011]

One more question. Does anyone have any ideas of what would cause this?

It appears as if the belt was pushing out on the cover all of the bots were tight and there was no play in the pulleys for either the crank or the water pump.

Dik

Someone probably put a belt on wrong, wrong size, or it slipped and skipped over (which i doubt)..

 

[Sandawgk5]

It was the factory belt.

Dik

 

[Sandawgk5]

it also can be kept in check by regular oil changes and good filters...

I can guarantee this is most likely my problem.(hand)

Dik

 

[Installshield 2]

I can guarantee this is most likely my problem.(hand)

Dik

ooo yeah, stay on yourself about that the next time. I'd highly recommend just biting the bullet and using a good synthetic, and more importantly...an OE filter (go with the KL V6 filters too, they're a little bigger but still fit perfectly)...All that stroke makes some pretty intense localized heat on the piston skirts, even under pretty normal driving. the FS is just one of those engines that seems to respond aggressively to oil condition...

Also, i read somewhere that Mobil 1 oil filters are made by the same company that makes the factory OE filters...so if you don't feel like dealing with a dealership, the mobil 1 filters are usually easy to find...I've used a V6 mobil 1 filter and mobil 1 10w-30 for 155,000 miles. (the filter is $9.99 at Autozone, and the oil is $24.95 for 5 quarts at wal-mart)..still don't burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes at 5000 to 7500 miles...I'm probably lucky, and i'm sure something will show up within the next year or so...but with no leaks, and no burning, its done well so far...

 

[rit14623]

ooo yeah, stay on yourself about that the next time. I'd highly recommend just biting the bullet and using a good synthetic, and more importantly...an OE filter (go with the KL V6 filters too, they're a little bigger but still fit perfectly)...All that stroke makes some pretty intense localized heat on the piston skirts, even under pretty normal driving. the FS is just one of those engines that seems to respond aggressively to oil condition...

Also, i read somewhere that Mobil 1 oil filters are made by the same company that makes the factory OE filters...so if you don't feel like dealing with a dealership, the mobil 1 filters are usually easy to find...I've used a V6 mobil 1 filter and mobil 1 10w-30 for 155,000 miles. (the filter is $9.99 at Autozone, and the oil is $24.95 for 5 quarts at wal-mart)..still don't burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes at 5000 to 7500 miles...I'm probably lucky, and i'm sure something will show up within the next year or so...but with no leaks, and no burning, its done well so far...

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but, would you recommend an oil cooler? The kind that relocates the oil filter and feeds the oil through a small radiator-like cooler.