Why you should go AccessPort with any sort of mods

[MSMS3]

Oh, just for s**** and giggles, so to speak, I ran my 88 degree F. datalog and your 93 degree F. datalogs through VD.

Objective data comparison. VD's assumptions, whether we agree with them or not.

DynoJet protocol. Assumed same barometric pressure as my datalog for both. Assumed my weight for both. Same smoothing.

The chart is attached.

OP's in red

MSMS3 in blue

I'm open to opinions regarding the relative effectiveness of the two tunes. BTW: The boost drop and rise in AFR's out at the end of my log is because I let up on the throttle before I stopped logging!

 

[jonespm]

That's what I've been saying all along and why I criticise custom AP stage 2 tunes on the stock K04 holding 18-20 psi out to redline with very lean (by my standards) AFR's and no regard whatsoever for exhaust gas temps.

Realy? you have no clue do you...

mike let him think he knows all because he obviously doesnt know anything about AP and the advantages over HT no matter if your fully bolted or just intake...

N00bs

 

[MSMS3]

Please understand ^ that I do not contend to know it all, or even to be sufficiently knowledgeable enough to custom tune with AP. That is, in fact, my very point. I'm very modest about this. It seems to be AP guys with, what I would respectfully suggest, is a certain unjustified degree of arrogant superiority, who are unwilling to admit the capabilities of HT when used with the stock K04 turbo.

If I can achieve essentially the same performance as OP's custom tune on the stock K04 with pretty much the same mods, but using HT, and do it with uber safety by keeping AFR's richer and boost lower and more within the efficiency range of the turbo, then I think HT is a pretty good alternative for those of us who are using simple bolt-ons.

You did look at the VD comparison, right? I'm lower on torque below 3,500 rpm (where I would question its benefit and the need to run 22 psi of boost to get that) but considerably better on torque and hp from 4,000 rpm and higher, especially in the band of 4,000 to 6,000 where WOT is likely to take place under competitive conditions. Not saying it's a lot better, but trying to make the point that AP is not showing me any superiority at my mod level. HT is a reasonable alternative for just about any bolt on mods if running the stock K04 turbo.

Just one opinion. I continute to be interested in comments on the comparison of the two VD charts.

 

[boosted1]

Please understand ^ that I do not contend to know it all, or even to be sufficiently knowledgeable enough to custom tune with AP. That is, in fact, my very point. I'm very modest about this. It seems to be AP guys with, what I would respectfully suggest, is a certain unjustified degree of arrogant superiority, who are unwilling to admit the capabilities of HT when used with the stock K04 turbo.

If I can achieve essentially the same performance as OP's custom tune on the stock K04 with pretty much the same mods, but using HT, and do it with uber safety by keeping AFR's richer and boost lower and more within the efficiency range of the turbo, then I think HT is a pretty good alternative for those of us who are using simple bolt-ons.

You did look at the VD comparison, right? I'm lower on torque below 3,500 rpm (where I would question its benefit and the need to run 22 psi of boost to get that) but considerably better on torque and hp from 4,000 rpm and higher, especially in the band of 4,000 to 6,000 where WOT is likely to take place under competitive conditions. Not saying it's a lot better, but trying to make the point that AP is not showing me any superiority at my mod level. HT is a reasonable alternative for just about any bolt on mods if running the stock K04 turbo.

Just one opinion. I continute to be interested in comments on the comparison of the two VD charts.

It is pointless to continue this dialog, because his superior knowledge regarding the AP, is golden!(deadhorse

 

[b e z]

^ That is why I wasnt going to comment on the situation again, but its hard not to get sucked into this.

 

[boosted1]

^ That is why I wasnt going to comment on the situation again, but its hard not to get sucked into this.

This is my last post in this thread. It's just a 'one way street, leading to a brick wall' !

 

[Big Eldorado]

Soooo.... I just read that entire thread. My Speed3 is bone stock, and i plan on doing just simple bolt-ons. Am I to gather that Hypertech is a dangerous product for my car? This seems unlikely. Im confused as to what would be the advantages of the COBB over the HT for simple bolt-ons when im just going to use a pre-loaded MAP. I am NOT a tuner guy like you 2 guys who have been...discussing...the pros and cons. I will not be going big turbo, or new injectors. Just FMIC, SRI, new downpipe. Simple stuff and i need pre-done MAPs to make sure i dont run super lean is all.

This discussion just left me more confused on my decision....(breakn)(jerkit)

 

[kgb]

(Full disclosure, I own a HT) So I am directing this at chimmike and my question is just meant to be a simple yes/no, straight up question without any response from me ....do you believe that the HT is the equivalent to "snake oil?"

 

[MSMS3]

The decision was easy for me - HT meets all my needs and I'm only an FMIC short of being fully bolted. Car runs like a scalded dog. Rips. 60-100 mph is consistently 6.1 seconds. It's plug and play, super safe and makes just about as much safe power as your mods will allow on the stock K04 turbo. I have yet to see ANY OTS AP map that produces better power and very few expensive custom tuned ones. Even those are only marginally better and at the expense of making what I consider to be mapping decisions I consider to be unsafe, at least in the long run on this turbo.

 

[b e z]

Soooo.... I just read that entire thread. My Speed3 is bone stock, and i plan on doing just simple bolt-ons. Am I to gather that Hypertech is a dangerous product for my car? This seems unlikely. Im confused as to what would be the advantages of the COBB over the HT for simple bolt-ons when im just going to use a pre-loaded MAP. I am NOT a tuner guy like you 2 guys who have been...discussing...the pros and cons. I will not be going big turbo, or new injectors. Just FMIC, SRI, new downpipe. Simple stuff and i need pre-done MAPs to make sure i dont run super lean is all.

This discussion just left me more confused on my decision....(breakn)(jerkit)

The hypertech in no way is unsafe, your only decision is if you will be fully bolted. Another question is if you have a monitoring system. Now if I were you and I planned to have DP, FMIC, sri, and possibly more bolt ons I would go AP. You can load a simple map without having to mess with anything and it lets you monitor. I have sri,tip, and soon to be race pipe and I am using the hypertech with no problems.

 

[kewlguy210]

If you not going to change out your turbo stick with HT. I'm currently stock and just have HT tune and I felt the power difference already. It remove the 1-2nd gear restriction and give u full power not like stock tune. You get power entire band and especially mid-high gears. I get power even in 6th gear with HT vs on stock tune I sometimes have to down shift to 5th for more power.

Soooo.... I just read that entire thread. My Speed3 is bone stock, and i plan on doing just simple bolt-ons. Am I to gather that Hypertech is a dangerous product for my car? This seems unlikely. Im confused as to what would be the advantages of the COBB over the HT for simple bolt-ons when im just going to use a pre-loaded MAP. I am NOT a tuner guy like you 2 guys who have been...discussing...the pros and cons. I will not be going big turbo, or new injectors. Just FMIC, SRI, new downpipe. Simple stuff and i need pre-done MAPs to make sure i dont run super lean is all.

This discussion just left me more confused on my decision....(breakn)(jerkit)

 

[chimmike]

If you not going to change out your turbo stick with HT. I'm currently stock and just have HT tune and I felt the power difference already. It remove the 1-2nd gear restriction and give u full power not like stock tune. You get power entire band and especially mid-high gears. I get power even in 6th gear with HT vs on stock tune I sometimes have to down shift to 5th for more power.

this is stupid advice.

If you want to make ridiculous power on stock turbo using meth or e85, get an accessport. If you are okay leaving free horsepower on the table for plug and forget it, go hypertech. I wouldn't go beyond an intake with a hypertech because there are simply so many parameters you can tune on the accessport to squeeze power out of the stock turbo or fully utilize the mods, or fully utilize a couple of gallons of e85 for timing advance, or utilize methanol injection to it's fullest via ignition timing adjusted for cooler BAT's.

 

[Domino81]

You can make 300whp with just a racepipe and SRI/TIP. You can't do that with a HT.

 

[MSMS3]

Oh really? Virtual Dyno chart on my HT flashed MS3. I do have a downpipe too, but HT is very friendly to it and smoothed out the 21 psi boost spike I was getting on stock tune. This is with stock TMIC, stock BPV. Only an intake, the dp/rp and HT and one step colder plugs. I actually added a third reso in the rp section to control drone and still got these numbers (peak 310 whp/319 tq with 280 whp still available all the way out to redline). Mods detail listed below in sig:

 

[Domino81]

Congratulations. I don't give a ****.

 

[chimmike]

Oh really? Virtual Dyno chart on my HT flashed MS3. I do have a downpipe too, but HT is very friendly to it and smoothed out the 21 psi boost spike I was getting on stock tune. This is with stock TMIC, stock BPV. Only an intake, the dp/rp and HT and one step colder plugs. I actually added a third reso in the rp section to control drone and still got these numbers (peak 310 whp/319 tq with 280 whp still available all the way out to redline). Mods detail listed below in sig:

If your correction factor isn't 1.01 those are inflated numbers.

Otherwise, let's see an actual, repeatable dyno of 310whp with HT.

 

[b e z]

Congratulations. I don't give a ****.

Geez Domino when did you become such a dick.

 

[chimmike]

I gave him lessons. He didn't really need any, he's a fast learner.

 

[b e z]

(2thumbs)

 

[MSMS3]

Well, if we correct to 1.01, which is not what most people are doing, I guess, I must confess . . . I come up a huge 7 whp short. 293/303 on that particular 4th gear log. I suspect that's in the margin of error for a chassis dyno variation from one day to another. No excuses, however, it is what it is. The data is the data. The power being made "up top" is due to pretty damn aggressive timing - 16.5-17 degrees above 6,000 rpm which is possible by tapering boost and keeping AFR's rich on the little K04. How are the AP fanbois doing on VD with same correction and similar mods and AP? Post 'um up. Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh, and Domino's opinion amounts to "Don't confuse me with the facts." I continue to laugh when I see how close the can-o-tune HT can come to the mighty AP, and sometimes exceed (not tying to say it's "better" whatever that means, anyway) when we stick to the stock K04 and bolt on mods.