Need advice for new suspension.

[gt3_dk]

Hey all... sorry I'm posting twice but now it ends up I have to act real quick to get the parts I need or else my dad is gonna replace everything with stock junk if I don't buy the aftermaket stuff I need in the next 1-2 weeks!!

Pleae check out this thread http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114835

He's not getting his new car for I'd say about a month and right now he's really sick of driving a car with that many problems to work. (Check the other post for details.)

Again I'd like to apologize to the mods for double posting but this needs immedate attention and it seems the 3rd gen forums alone don't get enough attention.

 

[Action Jackson]

What do you have planned for your car? AutoX? Track?

The following is my personal opinion, so if anyone thinks that it sucks then that's okay.

To be honest I was pretty happy with some used MP3 springs and the stock suspension. There is no wheel lift during cornering when I had someone follow me around the track. I've done about 13 track days with that setup and I really liked it.

If you really, really want to upgrade, you should first find out what that problem is first and make your decision from there.

I'd suggest the Tokico HP's. They'll be better than stock although I've never tried them before. Obviously if you want adjustible shock valving then the Illumina's are your best bet.

I'd also suggest that you take a good look into the Espelir Springs for your ride if you want performance. They offer pretty good spring rates and many users here are happy with them. Again I haven't tried them either.

The Tokico's and the Espelirs were products that I was looking into originally.

In terms of adjustible struts, the Illumina's and the Mazdaspeed [not Mazdaspeed Protege] are both the choices I looked into.

The adjustible Mazdaspeeds are very, very expensive and more diffiicult to obtain in Canada.

You can also look into coilovers but if you don't have access to a corner weighting system, then you'll probably have a weird handling car if you plan to AutoX or Track.

Someone else has to chime in about any swaybar setups for the Sedan. The Mazdaspeed Swaybar Kit is pretty expensive in Canada too.

I know of one authorized vendor in Canada that can get you the Espelirs. He also sells Tokico products : www.ctamotorsports.com

 

[gt3_dk]

Wow man thanks for the link... this guy has better prices I'd ever hoped to see in canada!

Was there a big difference in stiffness when you installed the mp3 springs or a drop? This seems like a really great thing I can do right now with the money I have but I'd like to hear other people's opinion who have tried this. (I want to replace all 4 struts since they are as old as the car anyways.)

I don't think I'll end up do AUtoX or Track anytime soon so I guess I don't need to get over the top stuff right now or that I can (apparently) now go for coil covers.

I've been looking around the web a lot and never found the explanation of what the difference between a coil cover and a regular string is.

I also need to know what happens to my ride height settings if I'd only install 4 Tokicos!!! (I've heard it makes your cars ass go up 1.3-1.5 inches and other weird stuff from more than one person.) If it is unaffected then this is obviously the right choice for me since they aren't that much more expensive than the stock crap and then I'll worry about the springs/ride height later because I'm not gonna do any racing or over the top cornering anytime soon.

I've also seen while looking at struts that there are "shock absorbers" and "struts". What is the differene or advantage or whatever and whre the hell do the springs go on shocks?? lol)

I'm really concerned about teh ride heght, because higher than stock is deinately ugly. And lowered car with crap stock hubcaps and no body kit looks absolutely stupid like a dumb ricer wannabe who thinks it's cool...) I really don't know what to say about the springs tho.. they all look the same to me...

EDIT: THe problems as the garage guy exactly said and that my old man wrote down is which are suspension related are:
- Shock absorber (front right) <---------- this is just a strut right?
- Front stabilizer Rods (2) <---------- I've seen them broken but wtf?
- Rear stabilizer Rods (2) <---------- Is this aka as a sway bar or something?

If it can help you help me, I wanna say that I'm just looking for something that will give me better general handling, while still staying resonably comfortable and that is a cheap quick solution for my current problem (I want it up and running well when I have my license. I also want to get rid of THIS problem ASAP tho becasue I have a couple more pretty expensive things I wana get on soon. Completely new front brakes, maybe new rear and if I can find rear discs.. hehe if such a convertion exists and I was gonna redo a paint job in a different color and get the parts that are starting to rust a little fixed.)

 

[gt3_dk]

I just found this this morning.. the info I'm looking for seems to be pretty rare but I'd just like someone to tell me if the info in this thread from a nother forum is true. (-> Click Here <- )

I mainliy want to know if what the second guy is true and maybe others if anyone has time to read them for me.

Thanks a lot in advance.

EDIT: Okay so I just saw thread on Tokico struts lower down the page and the new posts confirm what the above link said. But what's that balancing about??? Is that absolutely necessary or just useful for track? And what exactly is adjusted BTW? (Well the Tokico's I was gonna get aren't adjustable...?)

 

[Action Jackson]

Which version of the Sedan do you have? The ES with GT package?

The MP3 Springs are about 27% stiffer than a stock P5 or the ES Sedan with GT package.

It makes a difference [for me] in terms of:
- during hard braking the car tracks in a straight line
- during cornering the car is more controlled
- comfort is relative since some people find the stock P5 suspension too firm.

For my car with the MP3 springs drop .75" in front and about .875" [?]in the rear. See it's not a pretty sight but it works well.

The info in the Toyota link is correct. You can install better struts and keep stock springs to firm up the handling a bit but maintain some comfort.

And a strut generally may have a shock absorber in it, but also has a housing to hold in springs like this:

I've never heard of stabilizer rods. Maybe they mean sway or anti roll bars. If they are damaged then you have a pretty messed up suspension.

Lowering a car a bit is okay. It's subjective as to what is a "safe" lowering height. When you lower, you reduce shock travel a bit, you stress out the shocks more, you also put more stress on wheel bearings, hubs, etc.

You also change the handling. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. i.e if the struts and springs are mismatched you can get a pitching effect = not safe.

When I had the MP3 springs for a track setup, the ride height would look even. During some hard corners I would encounter "bump steer". As the suspension travels up/down, it causes a kickback in the steering wheel. It didn't affect my cornering that much though. Some people might be freaked out when that happens though.

You need to read this thread:
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?t=108612

I've read it and it's a good place to start.

 

[gt3_dk]

OMG thanks a lot for the info. My car is precisely 1999 Mazda Protege (duh...) LX with Touring Edition package and 1.8L engine, I think it was pretty much top of the line with the only major thing missing being the sunroof. SO I did my homework and read what you showed me and went on howstuffworks to check out car suspensions.

So, now I know installing the Tokico struts will not make my ride litterally firmer but it just will reduce bounce better than my stock shocks. I think this is what I should get right now anyways instead of buying a stock replacement so that I can upgrade my springs later (and worry about the side-effects) after winter passes by.. which is a long time (hand)
(Is that a smart choice in your opinionor would I be wasting my money on something I don't need?)

I'm also assuming my ride height shouldn't change after I buy these (why would it when the springs are the same?) so do I still have to go "balance" my suspension? From and old car magazine I have it shows a car on a $40000 machine/computer which tells how to correct camber angle and other stuff. Does my ride come with stock camber adjusments if the angle is bad or would I have to go out and buy one?

Also, the broken part that I reffered to as "stabilizer rods" I am pretty sure it is the anti-sway bars but I'm going to check tomorrow when there is light outside just to be exactly sure (it's 1 am right now...) IF it's the anti-sway bar should I just get it stock again? I'm thinking yes but I need to know if they weill be completely compatible with my new struts. (I saw something on corksport (scroll down a bit to see the Tokico HPs I want) ...? Is the site being stupid or something because I've never seen this on any other site and corksport looks like a pretty trusted place... so I was just wondering.

I have more questions for you...
1. In the 7 page thingy you linked me too I read that if my shocks have too much rebound dampening it can pack down the springs and bottom out. I doubt I have to worry about this but I thought I'd just mention it to make sure I don't have to worry about this with stock springs.

2. Also I think I'm seeing the diff between springs and coil-overs but I'm not sure.. (and I'm not sure why I used to call them coil-covers either lol )... Ok, so I know a spring is a spring ( lol ) and it's as simple as that it would go on my strut and rest on that plate thingy. Now, coil-overs I have deducted as being just springs on some metal thing and I can adjust the ride height. Would it be possible for me to install coil-over springs on my HPs in the future or would I need another type of shock?

3. TO me it looks like coil-overs come with shorter springs to compensate for the metal at the bottom. Ummmm isn't that kinda dangerously prone to bottoming out or are the springs just really much stiffer or something?

Well thanks for all the useful info so far.. I love these forums... and I love you (in a hetero man-friend way... no worriez)

BTW: Yes I know the suspension is damn messed up!! My dad is unfortunately one of those people who stop giving a s*** about their car after about a year. Not many things have been broken/fixed and no major problems either but it's just that he has been in pretty rough roads quite often and his lack of regualar check ups and maintenance has led the suspension to this. Like... we knew the "stabilizer rods" (aka *I'll be sure tomorrow*) were busted a while ago. It started with one and now they're all busted. My parents couldn't afford to fix this though (and I didn't have a job until recently) so that's why it got so bad. My dad really does a lot of highway mileage though I think he should be above or a round 175k KM on his car by now (maybe around 110k miles) but I've seen worse for the same car (over 210k!!!). But considering the fact he's been on the highway over 30 minutes each day with demented suspesion should I worry about the frame or other components and other crap? (In other words, is the car still worth it or should I get something else? Don't get me wrong I love "my" car but if it's gonna cost me way too much money for upkeep rather than upgrades I should find something else.)

Thanks again for all your support and advice. Is there a way we can chat on MSN or something? IMO forums take to long and I'm very anxious and pretty impatient about what's happening with the car. (Comon!! Everyone freaks on their first car... just like your first (boobs) hehe...)

Actually I think you car looks okay... but isn't there something really cheap and simple you can do like addinng some huge washers at back to make it all evened out?

 

[gt3_dk]

Yo... Action Jacskon, your friend at CTA doesn't have a good deal at all you know... especially if he is in Canada! I found another site I can get all of the Illuminas for 700 somthing all included (well I don't pay taxes since it's a US shop right? It wasn't talking about taxes unless I'm from Cali.) and that was with International Air shipping!

At CTA I'd get the Hp's for a bit less than 600+shipping or the Illuminas for 1000+shipping... Is he the kinda guy who can be negotiated with? (I'm asking you instead of him because it's Saturday and they usually only answer customer service during the week.) If you wan't proof you can go here Those prices sound very beleiveable to me I think I've even seen cheaper.

Do you think he can do me a good better price than the other place? (Better than the other by at least teh cost of a 24 lol j/k)

 

[Prodigy]

The cheapest place to get Illuminas is eBay.. I got mine for $460 shipped(US)
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114659
there's a member selling the stock MSP Racing Beat springs, they'll drop your car .75"

I have the Illumina/Espelir combo.. I love it.

Let me know if you have any more question or need pics of the drop or something.

 

[gt3_dk]

Wow that's really an amazing price on eBay!!! Well unfortunately I have to pay shipping because I live in Canada. Also can I ask of you a small favor? Can you ask the dude how much he would charge for shipping it to me? I'd ask him myself but I gotta be 18 to sign up for eBay... (I'll PM you my Zip Code or whatever you need if you feel like helping me out.) Or can you plase get his email maybe instead? That way I can talk to him myself and try to make a deal...

Well thanks a lot in advance man

EDIT: how exactly do I adjust the Illuminas? Like is this something I can do simply by jacking up my car because I'm having trouble visualizing what I have to do.

 

[Prodigy]

I'm only 16, I'm sure there's other members on here with an eBay account willing enough to ask.

To adjust the dampening, you just need a screwdriver.
For the rears, you have to remove the rear deck lid, and loosen the seat belts.

 

[gt3_dk]

OOHHHH!! So that's where it is lol... Ok ok now I know I'd just have to pop up the hood for the front and do what you said for the back... hehe thanks!

Ok, so if anyone who has an eBay account wouldn't mind asking the seller his email or something I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.

 

[gt3_dk]

For anyone who installed these, is it as easy as it looks/sounds to change the struts? Like I'd be ready to do it anytime but my dad is pretty worried (or should I say paranoid) since it's a car and it's much more dangerous and blablabla than what I'm used to when changing parts on my bike... LOL..

Ya so anyways I think the deal is that I pay the parts and he pays the garage guy to fix it. But I wanna do it myself... is there some way I can convince him maybe or should I just let him blow away his $$$ ?

 

[jon2000]

I'm in Canada too - I've got the 2000 Protege with Touring Edition. This summer I put on Tokico HP's and Protege MP3 springs and all new endlinks. The handling and ride quality is KILLER now. The springs settled in pretty nice too - they're a little higher in the front (probably too high for most peoples taste) but the stance is nice IMO. It's a nice firm ride with no bouncing at all.

Jon

 

[gt3_dk]

Cool. Did you get stock endlinks or something else? (and would somethig else be worth spending my money on?)

 

[Prodigy]

Cool. Did you get stock endlinks or something else? (and would somethig else be worth spending my money on?)

You might want to look into getting an AWR 21.5mm rear sway bar.
It's $210(us).. and it includes adjustable end-links.

I think the sway bar made the most improvement in my whole suspension set-up.

 

[gt3_dk]

Hmm... while I know I should also get a new swaybar I think I'll pass on that. When I'll actually get to dirve the car by myself it'll be autumn season starting so I'll work on the performance back in spring. I think I'll just stock up on some ICE for the winter since I can't go fast anyway and get a sound system that'll make anybody go like this --> (lol2) lol

Thanks for all the help everyone, so now I know I'm either getting the HPs or the Illuminas depending on final prices + shipping and availability.

 

[jon2000]

Cool. Did you get stock endlinks or something else? (and would somethig else be worth spending my money on?)

Yeah I went with the stock endlinks. You have to buy the endlinks from the newer Protege's (2001+) for the front though since the mounting tab for the endlinks on the Tokico struts are placed higher on the strut than the stock struts.

I went with stock because I didn't want to have the endlinks clunking all the time. It's recommended to put antiseize compound on the new endlinks so you can get the nuts off in the future too.

Jon