GM going down?

[Mallard]

To bad they wont bail out the airline industry like United Airlines. GM's brand and service, and quality is horrible, it would be sad to see that many people lose there jobs, but I absolutly despise them. I said it when they slumped to junk bonds, by 2006 GM will most likely be toast, UNLESS they do something really drastic, to bad they have to go to laying people off, instead of improving the brand.

As a business owner myself, I understand cuts are sometimes neccessary, but GM is so centered around a TYPE-CAST car that is why they are loosing out on so much of the market share.

And if i hear one more 9/11 excuse i will barf. They had great deals with the 0% stuff. But they pumped those things out like hot cakes, and by doing this the quality sunk to a alltime low. The envoy itself has had over 27 recalls on everything from tranny to blinkers. You ever notice how many brand new suburbans and escalades you see with the right front daytime running light out, tons. Well actually 1.3 million give or take a thousand to be exact.

The brand catored to geriatrics, and big family living. And didnt even glance at the youth market, by far the biggest demo out there. Toyota, sure is hurting.... But no wait.. GM gaves us the almighty cavalier, it has push rods for gods sake. Now they finally come out with th cobalt, ugly but functional.

American brands will never ever ever be able to compete with the japanese, on any level of car manufacturing, or pretty much anything for that matter.

They have little hands...come on what beats that.

Plus I can honestly say, every car they have is Ugly. I cant think of one thing I like, or even care about.

So the answer I give, is yes i think GM is going down hill. Will it die off, no. They have to many offshore companies that do ok. Like, Fuji heavy industries.

I guess they did something right by buying into a japanese company.

You obviously have not paid attention to the latest quality ratings. GM took more 1st places in quality then any other car maker, besides Toyota. They don't get there by building crap. A lot of people bash GM for their products, but have yet to drive anything they have come out with recently. People have a sour tate in their mouths from the cars they built in the 80-s and 90's, but it's a different product now. Also, the cars sold to fleets lack a lot of options, (Like ABS, nicer interior, etc) and that gives people bad impressions.

The Caviliar does not have push rods, and has not had pushrods since the Quad 4 came out in the late 80's. (Talking about the 4 cyl models since they stopped making 6 cyl in the early 90's)

Pushrod engines have their advantages and disadvantages, just like overhead cam engines do. Overhead cam is not 'new tech' either. They've been around just as long.

The Envoy had 27 recalls? Ok, how many have the Ford Focus or Mini Cooper, VW Jetta or even the MSP had? Also, look at the type of recalls they are. Most of the time it's nothing serious. Every car has recalls.

 

[txrxs]

Worthwhile GM vehicles:

Cobalt SS

My roomate just got one, and it is a nice car that is faster than my car, handles pretty damn well and looks the part. But as far as a solid build, i'm begining the think differently. He's owned the car for 2 weeks and interior s*** is already falling off the car. He's losing trim pieces here and there and the A pillar on the passenger side was over the weather stipping making it look like ass and stick out like a sore thumb. So far i'd say the build quality isn't that great. I'm willing to bet by 25K he's gonna be cursing GM.

 

[cbcbd]

going up...
going down...

 

[Mallard]

2005 JD Power Initial Quality Study:
Entry Midsize Gold: Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx
Premium Midsize Gold: Buick Century
Premium Midsize Silver: Chevrolet Impala
Premium Midsize Bronze: Pontiac Grand Prix
Full-Size Car: Buick LeSabre
Entry Luxury Car Bronze: Cadillac CTS
Mid Luxury Car Bronze: Cadillac DeVille
Light-Duty Full-size Pickup Bronze: Cadillac Escalade EXT
Heavy-Duty Full-Size Pickup Gold: GM Sierra HD
Heavy-Duty Full-Size Pickup Silver: Chevrolet Silverado HD
Full-Size SUV Gold: Chevrolet Suburban
Full-Size SUV Silver: Chevrolet Tahoe

GMs manufacturing performance leads all other manufacturers in North America . . . including Marysville (Honda) and Georgetown (Toyota).

2005 JD Power Plant Quality Awards:

Gold:
GM Oshawa #2
Buick LaCrosse
Buick Century
Pontiac Grand Prix

Silver:
GM Oshawa #1
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Monte Carlo

Bronze:
GM Detroit Hamtramck
Cadillac DeVille
Buick LeSabre
Pontiac Bonneville ​

GM delivered six first-place segment winners the most of any full-line corporation.
2005 Strategic Vision Awards:
Medium Car: Pontiac G6 (above Camry and Accord)
Small Specialty > $25,000: Chevrolet Corvette
Medium SUV: Buick Rainier
Luxury SUV: Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade
Heavy Duty Pickup: GMC Sierra 2500/3500



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[Lord_Zath]

You're also comparing stocks at 10x the price difference...

 

[Lil Freek]

^^ exactly.. I've driven a few GMs in the past while as that's what car rentals rent.... and GM cars never impressed me.

btw - txrxs, I love your sig

 

[cbcbd]

So if the quality has gone up why is their worth going down the pipes? Uninspired rides?

 

[Mallard]

So if the quality has gone up why is their worth going down the pipes? Uninspired rides?

Sales and costs. There are so many redundant jobs in the union that it drives the cost of production up. That's why they have to build so many cars to be profitable with a competitive price.

 

[Titanium]

over inflatted the market with their products. Just like it was said earlier many cars use the same chasis and powertrain but have a different body and name attached to it. If a company the size of GM were to go under it would have a hugh effect not only on our economy but the worlds economy. It is feared by many economists that if either ford or gm were to go under that it could cause a world depression. GM went the government and told them that the would need something in the billions to be bailed out. The government isnt sure they could even come up with the money. Plus they think its gm just crying wolf and many believe they should be able to bail themselves out of this mess. Many times German has been in this type of situation. What they have done in the past is poored all there money into their domestic products. Offering tax breaks for domestic products and raised taxes on imported products cause the retail price to be higher. This made the german products cheaper for germans to buy and to sell to other markets. I think this has happen at least twice in there past since WWII and each time it has worked. At the present time they are faced with the same problems and one side of their government has said that this plan has worked in the past to recover their economy and others have said that in this time and age that type of economics will not imply. Who know's?? Even Allen Greenspan says that the economy is a mostly a mistory to him and he is the federal governments expert in the matter. Maybe its time to stop exporting jobs and looking for cheaper products in other countries. Maybe its time to start raising taxes on imports and for the federal government to bump as much money into domestic market. Again, no one has the answers and god only knows what will work....

 

[BradC]

You obviously have not paid attention to the latest quality ratings. GM took more 1st places in quality then any other car maker, besides Toyota. They don't get there by building crap. A lot of people bash GM for their products, but have yet to drive anything they have come out with recently. People have a sour tate in their mouths from the cars they built in the 80-s and 90's, but it's a different product now. Also, the cars sold to fleets lack a lot of options, (Like ABS, nicer interior, etc) and that gives people bad impressions.

The Caviliar does not have push rods, and has not had pushrods since the Quad 4 came out in the late 80's. (Talking about the 4 cyl models since they stopped making 6 cyl in the early 90's)

Pushrod engines have their advantages and disadvantages, just like overhead cam engines do. Overhead cam is not 'new tech' either. They've been around just as long.

The Envoy had 27 recalls? Ok, how many have the Ford Focus or Mini Cooper, VW Jetta or even the MSP had? Also, look at the type of recalls they are. Most of the time it's nothing serious. Every car has recalls.

Almost positive the 2.2 (not the ECOTEC) in the late 90-early-00's still came with pushrods.

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

Actually Billy Bob, they do have push rods, 2.4 Ecotec. 97Cavi. Those are quality standards left by customers, not anything like JD power and associates. Trust me I have owned plenty of GM, along with my entire family and friends, and all of them are crap. IT obviously doesnt seem like people had that sour of a taste, since sales are at a alltime low now, not back in the 80-90s i think they made better cars back then.Dude 27 recalls ...were recalls, not TB's, I talking major stuff here to electronic wireing assembly , 4wd shattering the transfer case. I know this how? becuase about every single of of them happened to my godfather.

You obviously have not paid attention to the latest quality ratings. GM took more 1st places in quality then any other car maker, besides Toyota. They don't get there by building crap. A lot of people bash GM for their products, but have yet to drive anything they have come out with recently. People have a sour tate in their mouths from the cars they built in the 80-s and 90's, but it's a different product now. Also, the cars sold to fleets lack a lot of options, (Like ABS, nicer interior, etc) and that gives people bad impressions.

The Caviliar does not have push rods, and has not had pushrods since the Quad 4 came out in the late 80's. (Talking about the 4 cyl models since they stopped making 6 cyl in the early 90's)

Pushrod engines have their advantages and disadvantages, just like overhead cam engines do. Overhead cam is not 'new tech' either. They've been around just as long.

The Envoy had 27 recalls? Ok, how many have the Ford Focus or Mini Cooper, VW Jetta or even the MSP had? Also, look at the type of recalls they are. Most of the time it's nothing serious. Every car has recalls.

 

[Mallard]

Almost positive the 2.2 (not the ECOTEC) in the late 90-early-00's still came with pushrods.

Quad 4 = DOHC 2.3L and later 2.4L

 

[Mallard]

Actually Billy Bob, they do have push rods, 2.4 Ecotec. 97Cavi. Those are quality standards left by customers, not anything like JD power and associates. Trust me I have owned plenty of GM, along with my entire family and friends, and all of them are crap. IT obviously doesnt seem like people had that sour of a taste, since sales are at a alltime low now, not back in the 80-90s i think they made better cars back then.Dude 27 recalls ...were recalls, not TB's, I talking major stuff here to electronic wireing assembly , 4wd shattering the transfer case. I know this how? becuase about every single of of them happened to my godfather.

EcoTech's are DOHC

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

EcoTech's are DOHC

Ok made a mistake it is the 2.2 my bad cracka

 

[Mallard]

The Quad 4 is the 4 cylinder they used up until the EcoTec came out. Both are DOHC. Quad 4 came in 2.3 and 2.4L, EcoTech is 2.0 s/c, 2.2, and now 2.4L. Look it up.

JD Power --> http://www.jdpower.com/special/powerreport/gm/

 

[Mallard]

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/ecotec/index.htm

 

[misbehave]

Well, it's a free market we have here. If their products are really that good, why aren't more people buying with such huge discount around?
If you really think their products are awsome, if you really trust their reliablity and quality, then the best thing for you to do is to go ahead spend your own money to buy their cars. That's a much better demonstration of how good you believe they are than telling people how many awards they were given by some organizations.
For me, I simply don't keep reminding myself how many awards this P.O.S. have been given when I am driving it to be able to feel good. Or I don't keep reminding myself how minor this recall is when I need to call half a day off from work and take the car to the dealer.

 

[SubXer0]

ws6

Ws6 doesn't exist anymore

 

[Mallard]

I actually have done just that. I've actually been to the dealer to drive the newer cars, which is more then most people bashing them can say. Seeing as how I still have 2 years left to pay off the MSP and I'm spending more and more money on it, and a house looks tempting within a year I decided to stick with my trusty old 98 Olds Intrigue as the second driver.

My point is that ther are reasons to buy a GM car, and they're not all pieces of crap. Just because they don't have a car in the market some people on here want, doesn't mean that they suck. 'They have pushrods' is not a reason they suck.

Some people on here have some strong convictions about GM and those opinions will not change soon. I posted everything above not for them, but for the people that are indifferent and may read what I think is mis-information and form an incorrect opinion.

I have owned or driven many cars from all automakers and by far the wosrt reliability was with our Nissan Altima, followed closely by all the problems my dad has had with his 2000 Toyota Avalon. Nothing but normal maintenence on my Olds or MSP (besides mods) so far.

 

[GHOSTWHISPER]

Japanese cars hate you