2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

It's the perfect car for the millennial. Looks like a rugged 4runner but handles smaller, hybrid model gets really good mileage, and it's backed by Toyota's reputation for reliability and resale value. If I wanted to stay in the Toyota family I'm sure I'd take a hard look at the RAV-4, especially with gas prices on the rise.
Agreed. With current high gas price almost at $4.00 per gallon in Bay Area, people will start paying more attention to fuel efficiency. Even on non-hybrid RAV4, it still has the best MPG in the same class on non-hybrid models.

BTW Mazda sold 14,057 CX-5's in May this year, about ⅓ of Toyota RAV4's 43,499 units. Honda CR-V sold 30,893 units, and Nissan Rogue sold 28,600 units in May, 2019
 
That's news to me that the Bay Area represents the rest of the country when it comes to gas prices. (rofl)
Well even in Texas at about $2.50 per gallon, it's still pretty high compare to the last several years. I personally would put more emphasis on MPG (reliability is always my no. 1) than other features for my next vehicle purchase.
 
Well even in Texas at about $2.50 per gallon, it's still pretty high compare to the last several years. I personally would put more emphasis on MPG (reliability is always my no. 1) than other features for my next vehicle purchase.

Gas prices go up and down. $2.50 is a far cry from over $4.00. California is just high period.
 
Agreed. With current high gas price almost at $4.00 per gallon in Bay Area, people will start paying more attention to fuel efficiency. Even on non-hybrid RAV4, it still has the best MPG in the same class on non-hybrid models.

BTW Mazda sold 14,057 CX-5's in May this year, about * of Toyota RAV4's 43,499 units. Honda CR-V sold 30,893 units, and Nissan Rogue sold 28,600 units in May, 2019

CA has to have some special formulation which means only CA refineries can produce retail gas. Since localities and residents don't want new refineries in their neighborhoods, there are too few. Making things worse, a Valero refinery had some fire incident few months ago and they decided to keep it closed longer than necessary for some improvement work. This refinery just reopened recently, and prices have started to go down, though they always go down slower than up. However, they will never get to $2.50, maybe $3.30 at best.

Despite the high prices, highways are full and weekend / discretionary traffic does not seem to be affected. A lot of electric vehicles are used, compared with the rest of the country, though most traffic is still with ICE. The electric vehicle drivers get to use the commuter lane and some charge for free at work. Standard hybrids have not been allowed on the commuter lane for years now.
 
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Regardless, 40mpg comb. And nearly that highway and city, both, for the rav hybrid make it appealing. After getting edged on by like a 09 civic si with catback on ghe freeway today, im kinda sore at my GTR and wonder what 40mpg woulda been like, lol!
 
CA has to have some special formulation which means only CA refineries can produce retail gas. Since localities and residents don't want new refineries in their neighborhoods, there are too few. Making things worse, a Valero refinery had some fire incident few months ago and they decided to keep it closed longer than necessary for some improvement work. This refinery just reopened recently, and prices have started to go down, though they always go down slower than up. However, they will never get to $2.50, maybe $3.30 at best.

Despite the high prices, highways are full and weekend / discretionary traffic does not seem to be affected. A lot of electric vehicles are used, compared with the rest of the country, though most traffic is still with ICE. The electric vehicle drivers get to use the commuter lane and some charge for free at work. Standard hybrids have not been allowed on the commuter lane for years now.
Currently in San Jose area, and I need to get used to $55 per refill on gas to my Honda CR-V instead of <$30 in Texas. Super long lines at Costco is another inconvenient I need to get used to. I heard the monopoly business on oil refineries in California which is the main reason the gas price is high, but I thought it's because the state regulation. What "special" formulation in California which makes the gas is so different from other states?

Housing is the same. We can buy a brand new 4,500 sq. ft. home with lot in Dallas area for $550,000. But for that money you can't even build a 2,500 sq. ft. house on your own lot! One contractor told me for the same construction material the price will be almost doubled in California than other states for unknown reason. Larger home builders such as KB Homes are getting into futures business to get building materials from out of state as the materials will be much cheaper even with expensive shipping cost.

There're so many Tesla and Chevy Bolt electrical vehicles in the Bay Area. So as the Mazda's which are so many more on the road than in Dallas area.
 
Gas prices go up and down. $2.50 is a far cry from over $4.00. California is just high period.

Agreed, and even at $3.00 per gallon a 2019 RAV4 AWD would save about $124 per year over a 2019 CX5 AWD.

2019 CX5 AWD COMBINED CITY/HWY 26 MPG @ 15,000 Miles and $3.00 Gallon = $1731 Per Year
2019 RAV4 AWD COMBINED CITY/HWY 28 MPG @ 15,000 Miles and $3.00 Gallon = $1607 Per Year

2019 CX5 AWD Grand Touring with Tech Package $34315
2019 RAV4 AWD Limited with Tech Package $37870


Even if gas was somehow $5.00 per gallon everywhere tomorrow, the RAV4 would save you around $200 per year, but because it costs $3500 more MSRP, the CX5 would be cheaper to drive for 17 1/2 years at 15,000 miles per year.

If you drive a lot of miles, say 30,000 per year and spend $5.00 per gallon, you would spend and extra $412 per year on fuel, so you could drive the CX5 8 1/2 years before you would equal the initial purchase price of the RAV4. Holy chit, can that be right?

And the actual purchase price difference between the 2 vehicles is probably higher than $3500.
 
MPG is but one factor when I purchase a car. I balance performance, handling, functionality, MPG / efficiency / maintenance and reliability. I have to enjoy my car. As mentioned in a previous post, some efficient cars (hybrids and EVJ purchase price offset expense in lower mPG. I did not like the way the 2019 RAV drove, so I had to cross it off my list early on
 
But what about the Hybrid, right?

$3.00 Fuel
39 Average MPG, 15,000 Miles = $1154
26 Average MPG, 15,000 Miles = $1731
Difference = $577 per year

MSRP of RAV4 Limited Hybrid with Tech/Apdaptive Headlight Package $38,885
MSRP of CX5 AWD with Tech Package $34,315

So, it would take 8 years driving the CX5 AWD, spending all that extra money on $3.00 per gallon fuel, before you would spend enough to equal the MSRP of the RAV4 Hybrid Limited.

It would take almost 5 years at $5.00 per gallon gas.
And again, the RAV4 Hybrid will proabably sell at or above MSRP while the CX5 AWD will sell below.

I won't get into battery replacement costs.
 
Agreed, and even at $3.00 per gallon a 2019 RAV4 AWD would save about $124 per year over a 2019 CX5 AWD.

2019 CX5 AWD COMBINED CITY/HWY 26 MPG @ 15,000 Miles and $3.00 Gallon = $1731 Per Year
2019 RAV4 AWD COMBINED CITY/HWY 28 MPG @ 15,000 Miles and $3.00 Gallon = $1607 Per Year

2019 CX5 AWD Grand Touring with Tech Package $34315
2019 RAV4 AWD Limited with Tech Package $37870


Even if gas was somehow $5.00 per gallon everywhere tomorrow, the RAV4 would save you around $200 per year, but because it costs $3500 more MSRP, the CX5 would be cheaper to drive for 17 1/2 years at 15,000 miles per year.

If you drive a lot of miles, say 30,000 per year and spend $5.00 per gallon, you would spend and extra $412 per year on fuel, so you could drive the CX5 8 1/2 years before you would equal the initial purchase price of the RAV4. Holy chit, can that be right?

And the actual purchase price difference between the 2 vehicles is probably higher than $3500.
Yeah I agree the MPG advantage is mostly psychological, and the actual saving on gas is not that significant. But I admire the effort by Toyota engineers who developed new Dynamic Force 2.5L with industry-leading 40% thermal efficiency to improve its MPG. The use of both direct and port fuel injections makes me believe Toyota is thinking long-term reliability seriously. Mazda's SkyActiv Technology was emphasizing efficiency with simplicity too few years ago and that's one of the reasons I bought our CX-5. Unfortunately Mazda hasn't been doing too much in this area since then. Future SkyActiv-X may be efficient, but its complexity truly scares me away.

BTW you're comparing top-of-line RAV4 AWD Limited to a mid-trim CX-5 GT with Tech Package which is not a fair comparison especially on price. And Mazda's current SkyActiv-G 2.5L with cylinder deactivation on GT definitely is having major issue with falling rocker arms. It definitely is something stopping me to recommend CX-5's with this engine to any of my friends and family.
 
BTW you're comparing top-of-line RAV4 AWD Limited to a mid-trim CX-5 GT with Tech Package which is not a fair comparison especially on price. And Mazda's current SkyActiv-G 2.5L with cylinder deactivation on GT definitely is having major issue with falling rocker arms. It definitely is something stopping me to recommend CX-5's with this engine to any of my friends and family.

To be fair, the two top trim CX-5s are a turbo so I think he's as fair as he can get comparison wise.
 
But what about the Hybrid, right?

$3.00 Fuel
39 Average MPG, 15,000 Miles = $1154
26 Average MPG, 15,000 Miles = $1731
Difference = $577 per year

MSRP of RAV4 Limited Hybrid with Tech/Apdaptive Headlight Package $38,885
MSRP of CX5 AWD with Tech Package $34,315

So, it would take 8 years driving the CX5 AWD, spending all that extra money on $3.00 per gallon fuel, before you would spend enough to equal the MSRP of the RAV4 Hybrid Limited.

It would take almost 5 years at $5.00 per gallon gas.
And again, the RAV4 Hybrid will proabably sell at or above MSRP while the CX5 AWD will sell below.

I won't get into battery replacement costs.
Nobody should worry about battery replacement on Toyota's hybrid as this's something rarely happens based on the history.

On the other hand, every CX-5 owners with cylinder deactivation should worry about potentially falling rocker arms which has been proven by the history.
 
Nobody should worry about battery replacement on Toyota's hybrid as this's something rarely happens based on the history.

On the other hand, every CX-5 owners with cylinder deactivation should worry about potentially falling rocker arms which has been proven by the history.

Ok, let's say the batteries last 10-15 years. What about 8 years to make up the cost of the Hybrid? What bout 5 years to make up the cost if fuel is $5.00 per gallon?
 
Ok, let's say the batteries last 10-15 years. What about 8 years to make up the cost of the Hybrid? What bout 5 years to make up the cost if fuel is $5.00 per gallon?
No, additional cost on hybrid almost can never be recovered by savings on gas alone. That's why I'm not interested in hybrid. Most hybrid has smaller engine hence the acceleration is poor at non-EV mode. But RAV4 hybrid is different. Its engine has even higher thermal efficiency and the vehicle has more combined power. RAV4 XSE Hybrid also offers sport-tuned suspension. More choices on interior color such as light gray which'd be my preferred color for Silver Sky Metallic exterior. Crrent all-black interior in my CX-5 simply is too much black and too dark.
 
Nobody should worry about battery replacement on Toyota's hybrid as this's something rarely happens based on the history.

On the other hand, every CX-5 owners with cylinder deactivation should worry about potentially falling rocker arms which has been proven by the history.

Even if a CX5 had no issues - it needs so many touch points on the service side - brakes / coolant / Tx fluid / Oil changes / Belts will die occasionally after 100K miles. Even if you had no major failure and did preventive maintenance = equal to the cost of replacing a hybrid battery in itself. Add the time you spend - your salary hourly rate times 1.5 as it is your vacation time - it takes far more to keep a car like CX-5 on road than a hybrid.

Toyota Hybrids as a family are one of the most reliable drivetrains in the US. Its shocking to see lines of Camry Hybrids with 450K miles lining Copart lots. Their interior gets trashed far before their drivetrain. Prius, RX400h, HS250h, CT200h, Avalon, Camry, ES300h - 300K miles without even trying and being OCD about maintenance. Legends. Whereas here we have people - I am going change my brake fluid every 30k miles / 4 times Tx fluid 80K miles / Coolant 100K miles / Belts after 100K miles / Oil change every 5K miles.

Another gem was Escape Hybrid - doing your brakes @ 120K miles, eCVT needing 1 service every 150K miles, no belt driven mechanism in newer hybrids (not sure if this was true for 2011 Escape).
That is why the older Tribute / Escape Hybrid is an amazing used car bargain. There are cab drivers in NY sad that Ford binned it - as NY has mandated hybrids for city cabbies.

Reduced maintenance plus cost savings on hybrid means the hybrid pays for its own maintenance. Plus in city driving they are going to be very quiet - even new Corolla hybrid is very nice. The place where they fail is 75+ mph driving. Some of them have no pull whatsoever beyond 65-70.
 
Currently in San Jose area, and I need to get used to $55 per refill on gas to my Honda CR-V instead of <$30 in Texas. Super long lines at Costco is another inconvenient I need to get used to. I heard the monopoly business on oil refineries in California which is the main reason the gas price is high, but I thought it's because the state regulation. What "special" formulation in California which makes the gas is so different from other states?

Housing is the same. We can buy a brand new 4,500 sq. ft. home with lot in Dallas area for $550,000. But for that money you can't even build a 2,500 sq. ft. house on your own lot! One contractor told me for the same construction material the price will be almost doubled in California than other states for unknown reason. Larger home builders such as KB Homes are getting into futures business to get building materials from out of state as the materials will be much cheaper even with expensive shipping cost.

There're so many Tesla and Chevy Bolt electrical vehicles in the Bay Area. So as the Mazda's which are so many more on the road than in Dallas area.

Costco sells the cheapest gas which is still Top Tier :-)
The formulation of gas is to get a cleaner burning gas, which is part of the state's environmental regulations. The process of refining it is more expensive and neighboring states don't require it and neighboring states' refineries don't follow it.
Of course, in addition, there is state tax levied on gas, there are few independent retailers (e.g. not well known across the US), many more drivers and no pipelines. All these make gas more expensive.
In the 90s, California suffered from high air pollution, with the introduction of this special formulation in 1996, pollution dropped significantly, specifically ozone levels (which at ground level is a measure of unhealthy air).

The immigrant population in the bay area of high tech engineers and their families is very large. These are especially from countries like China and India, but also from Europe, Russia, other Asian countries or any place with a good higher education system.
Yes, homes here are super expensive. An average home is > $1M. This average home is much less nice than an average home in most other places. There aren't many 4500 sq ft homes in the bay area. Some coveted locations have small, low standards buildings, which are > $2M, some with 1 car garage converted into some other type of living space.
Even well paid tech workers, which rent, will often choose to buddy-up and rent a single apartment or house together. This is what the neighbors across the street from us do.
The trailer park close to my office has some Tesla / Mercedes in some driveways (cars which are common here). A 2 bedroom apartment in a meh neighborhood but close to many high tech offices are $3600/month.
 
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Even if a CX5 had no issues - it needs so many touch points on the service side - brakes / coolant / Tx fluid / Oil changes / Belts will die occasionally after 100K miles. Even if you had no major failure and did preventive maintenance = equal to the cost of replacing a hybrid battery in itself. Add the time you spend - your salary hourly rate times 1.5 as it is your vacation time - it takes far more to keep a car like CX-5 on road than a hybrid.

Toyota Hybrids as a family are one of the most reliable drivetrains in the US. Its shocking to see lines of Camry Hybrids with 450K miles lining Copart lots. Their interior gets trashed far before their drivetrain. Prius, RX400h, HS250h, CT200h, Avalon, Camry, ES300h - 300K miles without even trying and being OCD about maintenance. Legends. Whereas here we have people - I am going change my brake fluid every 30k miles / 4 times Tx fluid 80K miles / Coolant 100K miles / Belts after 100K miles / Oil change every 5K miles.

Another gem was Escape Hybrid - doing your brakes @ 120K miles, eCVT needing 1 service every 150K miles, no belt driven mechanism in newer hybrids (not sure if this was true for 2011 Escape).
That is why the older Tribute / Escape Hybrid is an amazing used car bargain. There are cab drivers in NY sad that Ford binned it - as NY has mandated hybrids for city cabbies.

Reduced maintenance plus cost savings on hybrid means the hybrid pays for its own maintenance. Plus in city driving they are going to be very quiet - even new Corolla hybrid is very nice. The place where they fail is 75+ mph driving. Some of them have no pull whatsoever beyond 65-70.
Toyota has 12-month / 10,000-mile oil change interval, whereas Mazda has 6-month / 7,500-mile oil change interval. Many here even do oil change at 5,000 miles interval. Toyota offers 2-year free maintenance, but Mazda doesn't. This's one example the maintenance cost on Mazda is higher.

I certainly feel Kaps has a change of heart to his Mazda CX-5, but this's also my experience after owning my CX-5 for 4+ years.

The more I use my Mazda, the more it seems that so called Premium quality is not skin deep. This could be another example. I have found 5-6 examples where it feels and functions cheaper than a Kia.
??? If you meant "that so called Premium quality is only skin deep", I agree.
 

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