Blame the regulations for the stupid things the makers do to meet targets
We've had the diesel here for yonks and from memory can online pretty much when the model(s) were released
US Diesel's big splash introduction
- Thread starter Monterra
- Start date
Blame the regulations for the stupid things the makers do to meet targets
We've had the diesel here for yonks and from memory can online pretty much when the model(s) were released
Yes but your regs seem to be to set to the extreme where as here, in Europe and other markets, the diesel engine has been selling for years now on different models.
AFAIK here, this type of regs are set by Federal and not states.
Spend some time at the zocalos in South America and the plazas/piazzas in Europe and you can smell that their regulations are not the same as the cities here (USA). More diesels and less regulations take a toll.
I’m a fan of seatbelts, clean water and clean air; don’t deregulate me to death!
Otherwise performance will eventually become strangulated
Mazda had plenty of time to get the SkyActiv-D 2.2 engine certified by EPA and CARB prior to the scandal. The VW emissions scandal started three years after Mazda introduced the engine. So I can't blame the regulators for Mazda's failure to introduce the engine here before the scandal broke. According to Mazda themselves, they couldn't meet emissions without hurting drivability. After the scandal, it's no secret that the regulators have increased their scrutiny, but other manufacturers have managed to get their diesels certified while Mazda hasn't. So I can't blame the regulators for Mazda's failure to bring the engine here after the scandal either. The simple fact of the matter is that others have gotten it done while Mazda hasn't.
Now for some speculation... The current 2.2 diesel engine is 5 years old now. I don't know what emissions standards they were targeting when they designed it, but the standards are getting tighter every year, so every year of delay makes the problem harder. Given that Mazda struggled to get the engine approved in the US even before the VW scandal, and given that the advertised 2017 MY introduction hasn't happened, I'm guessing that the current generation 2.2D is probably a dead end. Either it's never going to pass muster here, or if it could, the market lifespan is going to be so short it's not worth having to support another engine that might only be on the market for a couple of years and sell 20k vehicles.
So I think it's vaporware at this point.
Now for some speculation... The current 2.2 diesel engine is 5 years old now. I don't know what emissions standards they were targeting when they designed it, but the standards are getting tighter every year, so every year of delay makes the problem harder. Given that Mazda struggled to get the engine approved in the US even before the VW scandal, and given that the advertised 2017 MY introduction hasn't happened, I'm guessing that the current generation 2.2D is probably a dead end. Either it's never going to pass muster here, or if it could, the market lifespan is going to be so short it's not worth having to support another engine that might only be on the market for a couple of years and sell 20k vehicles.
So I think it's vaporware at this point.
Mazda thought they had it clean enough without the need for urea just like VW <coughcough> did but they were (narrowly I'm sure) wrong and I guess felt if they had to add urea they no longer had a price competitive product. I'm not blaming regulators and I don't believe Mazda has failed or its vaporware..yet. LA/Det shows come and go with nothing definitive then I go all Chevy ad: watwot without the party in the back and just look ahead to sky-x. Its also how they're positioning it as the top spec premium motor- powerful and frugal (they didn't want to give us the weak version) that justifies the price vs the uber economical yet slower and more expensive like the Chevy.
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Mazda failed with their initial attempt to sell the diesel engine here in the US, because they were trying to beat a target that was only attainable through cheating (like VW did). They had a diesel engine that didn't need urea, but to get it to pass emissions here, it ended up not having enough zoom zoom. Mazda did not want to compromise the driving experience and so they pulled the plug on it. I'm sure Mazda, who has very good engineers, were scratching their head wondering how VW was getting by with the TDis. Now we know. Today they are trying to get a diesel engine with urea certified. I think that goes to show that currently, it is not possible to pass the current emissions standards in the US without urea injection, or else they would have tried to release the diesel engine without urea.
Trying to bring a diesel to market without urea injection was and is probably a mistake on Mazda's part. By 2013, VW had already moved to urea injection in the 2014 Passat TDI.
I'm just getting frustrated with the VW scandal being used as an excuse by everyone. Other manufacturers were able to bring small diesels to market here before the scandal, and other manufacturers have done it since the scandal. Either Mazda is trying but failing because the current engine design just isn't clean enough, or they've decided it isn't worth it and they're stringing us along until they have something better to sell us. I'm really starting to think the latter.
I'm just getting frustrated with the VW scandal being used as an excuse by everyone. Other manufacturers were able to bring small diesels to market here before the scandal, and other manufacturers have done it since the scandal. Either Mazda is trying but failing because the current engine design just isn't clean enough, or they've decided it isn't worth it and they're stringing us along until they have something better to sell us. I'm really starting to think the latter.
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So it ain't here yet with inside of 8 weeks left in the year, still no firm eta yet but it ain't over till its over Red!
http://autoweek.com/article/car-new...nese-design-and-niche-markets-might-just-work
http://autoweek.com/article/car-new...nese-design-and-niche-markets-might-just-work
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- 2014 QX70 AWD
Good read Monty. You forgot to add Lawson's to your sig.
There's an old tv ad that went "It won't happen overnight but it will happen"
Applied to the diesel engine for USA.
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- 2022 2.5GT
Just a bit of an update on my diesel. At the beginning of this thread I had the 2016.5 model which diluted the oil badly. By the time I’d reached the 5000 Miles that my new 2017 model has done I would have needed to change the oil through both reaching the third “oil fully diluted” mark on the dipstick and also “oil viscosity low” warnings on the dash. This new one that has the same basic engine that you guys will get is a different kettle of fish. The oil has not moved at all which is an incredible achievement. The regenerations are extended from every 100 miles to every 300 miles and last much shorter periods of time. In fact, I very often don’t realise they have taken place. The last car was noisy during regen but I am only made aware it’s part way through on this one if the istop doesn’t work. Mainly because the car is so quiet that I can’t hear what’s going on. Fuel consumption is 5-10 mpg better than the last one.
The way a small diesel drives is different than a petrol so it will take a bit of getting used to but I think you guys would enjoy the experience now they’ve got to grips with its shortcomings. It’s a very good car.
The way a small diesel drives is different than a petrol so it will take a bit of getting used to but I think you guys would enjoy the experience now they’ve got to grips with its shortcomings. It’s a very good car.
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- CX5
I have that too. Haha! Maybe we can add a bigger windshield washer reservoir. Haha! [emoji23]So any suggestions what we can do with this then?
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- CX5
Technicalities aside I think even if they can pass the regulations I think they will still have to face the supply issue. We still have a long line here in this part of the globe.
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