Different PCM with SSAFC

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Bc-386

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2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
I am pretty sure my MSP pcm is fried. I found a mp3 pcm at a junkyard. Do you think i can program with the ssafc and get it to run proper afr? I already ran the car with the MP3 pcm w/ superstock edit2 fuel map (located in the library). The car and afr is perfect until i floor the pedal. No matter where i am at in the rpm range, when i floor the pedal, the afr goes LEAN!

Or do i just need to fork out the cash and buy a new MSP pcm?
 
splitsecond will work with any ecu for the fsde as long as you buy the model specific for it. i think it is afc20. mp3 ecu actually ideal as it has a smoother power curve i belive. the only thing i cant answer is if the speedo ect will still work as the msp takes it from the abs sensor.
 
It runs lean because the turbo requires more fuel. DO NOT RUN a regular protege ECU on an MSP, you will snap a rod before too long. Are you sure your stock ECU is fried? Find a used MSP ecu to tune with. Potentially you could tune the AFC to run richer and possibly properly control the car but I wouldn't go through the trouble just get the correct ECU
 
Everytime i run my MSP ecu, the CEL comes up saying the TPS wiring harness is faulty... When i run try a protege ecu or the MP3 ecu, the CEL never pops up.

Is it cheaper to re-program a regular protege ecu or just buy a MSP ecu?
 
protege Ecu alone will kill the car but a ecu and AFC should be okay in theory as you get to add more fuel as air pressure rises.
 
hornsfan10609 said:
It runs lean because the turbo requires more fuel. DO NOT RUN a regular protege ECU on an MSP, you will snap a rod before too long. Are you sure your stock ECU is fried? Find a used MSP ecu to tune with. Potentially you could tune the AFC to run richer and possibly properly control the car but I wouldn't go through the trouble just get the correct ECU
Click to expand...

you can run a regular pro pcm, just not without adding fuel to compensate for the exponential growth of charged oxygene. Though the only reason i could see doing it though is to start with the more linear map that isnt infected with hesitation, flash/reflash/flash and all the rest of the bulls*** associated with the stock msp tune. Though im not familiar with the ssafc, but im pretty sure it has limitations to its ability to fully tune your maps properly. Kinda too gray area for me to consider when its alot cheaper to get haltech and some innovate datalogging/transfering goodies that work with most standalone/piggyback solutions and download an app to your iPhone and view/change parameters from the driver seat and fine tune properly fuel/spark/timing/larger and extra injectors...as opposed to rebuilding a popped motor. I trust technology enough to give me control, but ill be damned if im giving it creative liscence to the fate of my block..

i remember back in the day when the msp was just a baby that guys running boosted NA motors were getting better results with non msp ecu setups. I think the mp3 ecu was the 'it' thing for a better base for building on. But that was back when hiboost was cranking it up, there was a supercharger setup available, and most zoom zoom boom stories were still surprising. Id be interested to know forsure though, say same car same day with a mapped msp ecu vs a mapped mp3 if the building blocks dont affect the power band at all. I know a real legit tune pretty much anihilates any resemblance to the stock power band, but alot of people build off the stock fuel map through datalogging/tweaking and some buttdyno. Hrm,
 
not only the fuel aspect with the protege ecu and a big one with the mp3 ecu would be the timing. they both have a more advanced timing map to them in which would make it run better if you get the fuel part tuned but without pulling the timing back out your just asking to zoom zoom boom mod the car.
 
Basically what everyone was saying in way too many words, you can run a MP3 ecu just fine as long as you tune for it, you cant run anymore "pre-made" maps for the MSP.

In my experience, the idle and warm start up is much better with a NA ecu then with a MSP ecu, not sure why. I would much prefer to tune a NA ecu for turbo then tune a MSP ecu, since with a piggyback you cant really control warm starts or idle or any of the real driveability aspects
 
some people run a stock protg ecu and a piggy back of some sort with a o2 voltage clamp. The car therefore will run of the stock ecu until once you start making boost, then it switches to the maps on the piggyback
 
I could use a pre-made fuel map as a baseline to build off of tho, correct??

I have noticed that the idle does seem better with the mp3 ecu. But then again, i am comparing it to the damage msp ecu.

Can the stock protege ecu be re-programmed by the dealership and turned into an MSP ecu?
 
No, I wouldnt use a premade map to tune off of for the MP3, since you are trying to enrichen the MP3 map,
and the pre-made maps lean out the mixture, if you hit boost with a pre-made map, it wont be for long, because you'll probably blow a hole in your block lol
I would do some research on tuning the ssafc, tons of info on the split second site on tuning. Not hard just takes some time.
 
704_mazdaguy said:
Basically what everyone was saying in way too many words, you can run a MP3 ecu just fine as long as you tune for it, you cant run anymore "pre-made" maps for the MSP.

In my experience, the idle and warm start up is much better with a NA ecu then with a MSP ecu, not sure why. I would much prefer to tune a NA ecu for turbo then tune a MSP ecu, since with a piggyback you cant really control warm starts or idle or any of the real driveability aspects
Click to expand...

Yes!thank you for cliffnotes version. I get going and forget how much some people dislike reading long babbles.

if youre going to tune it, spend the extra couple bucks investing in adjustable cam gears, and/or a tuner supporting timing adjustment. Retard timing, add fuel under boost. I wouldnt use any premade tune as it defeats the pirpose of tuning a motor with specific modifications. Also any small change in conditions will affect the tune, like atmospheric pressure, humidity, temperate altitude etc.

are you planning on tuning it yourself or using a profesional/garage/dyno guy? If youre worried about the NA ecu first tune with the turbo you could pay for the initial rough tune with just an hour on a dyno with profesional monitoring and adjustment. Then use datalogs to tweak the exact af/r through the boost. I know its adding cost after cost but if youre nervous about doing the first tune yourselfvits worth it to have a stronger base with NA ecu. Hell if your comfortable with doing the first tune yourself im sure a little research and perhaps private messaging certain members land asking for their af/r graph/data sheets. Then use the af/r and powerband info to atleast give you a goid baseline to start safely, or atleast safe enough to not pop once boost hits.

goodluck.
Keep updating to let us know what u decide and how it goes
 
I feel semi confident that i could tune the afr, but i fear the timing. Currently, i dont the ability to adjust my timing. I really want to get an msp ecu, but i may get impatient... I'll keep the thread going with an update.
 
If you arent 100% i say wait till you know. Otherwise you might regret your choice. Then you have time to decide weather you get serious on the na route and take time initially,or go msp and work out the hiccups as you learn/improve of a less time consuming start of process.
 
I just purchased an msp ecu from spicyorangemsp. Tuning will be a lot easier. I don't have a problem modifying a map, but creating one from scratch is kinda nerve racking.
 
just use the super stock map and go from there. wont need to tune for out of boost just need to tune the in boost. out of boost should be somewhere between 14.5 to 15.5 the stock ecu will run about this. just bounces back and forth then in boost should run about 11.5 afr to make sure you dont lean it out to much.
 
Finally all set up. I got a MSP ecu from spicyorangeMSP. It works like it should and I am beginning to tune.

Which is the best map to start from for baseline: superstock, superstock edit2, super map 9psi, kelly2, or fmic ?

Last question, should I remove the PRC solenoid plug? My car didnt have one when i bought it. I feel the fuel delivery isnt smooth at slow speeds and i got bad fuel cut at 3000rpms on the "stock map" that spicyorangemsp applied to my replacement ECU.


* My mods are: 3" turbo back, exhaust manifold, fmic, relocated maf, cai, docB setup, AWR oil pan, ported intake manifold, VTCS flap delete, colder plugs, ssafc, and stock T25 turbo.

* Possible mods (guy who previously owned it claimed, but i havent torn the motor down to verify): Forged motor, pauter rods, arias 8.5-1 compression pistons, ported head, and JDM exhaust cam.
 
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