tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
The only reason the msp doesn't have lag is because of the tiny ass t2554. There are reasons why every car you just named will easily outrun the msp, and all of them have a bigger turbo.
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mods for 200 hp?
- Thread starter Murphy115
- Start date
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
I feel the msp was built from factory to just be a fun street car. It was never made to **** every other car on the road. The t25 is really nice. If only mazda did a better tune.
I am not concerned about outrunning anyone on my way to work. It is all about having fun and enjoying my drive. Now, I will agree that the MSP is frustratingly slow at times. For instance, when you have four people in the car with the A/C on in 115 degree weather. I hope hell isn't as bad as that, but going to a larger turbo and lower compression will only make that situation much worse.
And the MSP doesn't only lack lag because of the small turbo. It also is incredibly light. The lag in the MS6 is pretty awful, but the MS3 is almost as fun to drive as the MSP. I came real close to pulling the trigger a couple times on the MS3. Instead, I talked my brother into buying one.
Take a look at our drag times list. You'll see there are just as many stock turbos at the top of the list as there are discos. And except for Turboman's obvious fictitious claim, the trap speeds are in line too, so it is not a matter of traction. And there are literally no T3's or larger on the list at all.
I am sure there is some fun to be had with 300+whp in the MSP, but the only time I can see it being used is high speed pulls. And even then you'll always be wondering if your transmission is going to hold. Spinning the tires at will seems like fun at first, but it gets old really quickly. You can buy stickier tires, but even if nothing breaks, buying new tires every year sucks.
At both the drag strip and the road courses, I see lots of incredibly fast FWD cars, so it can be done, but they also aren't usually daily drivers and often arrive at the track on a trailer.
So for a track car or just a hobby car, I am sure a big turbo would be fun, but as a daily driver, I think the T25 is perfect for the MSP (and as speedp said, if only Mazda gave us proper engine management).
And the MSP doesn't only lack lag because of the small turbo. It also is incredibly light. The lag in the MS6 is pretty awful, but the MS3 is almost as fun to drive as the MSP. I came real close to pulling the trigger a couple times on the MS3. Instead, I talked my brother into buying one.
Take a look at our drag times list. You'll see there are just as many stock turbos at the top of the list as there are discos. And except for Turboman's obvious fictitious claim, the trap speeds are in line too, so it is not a matter of traction. And there are literally no T3's or larger on the list at all.
I am sure there is some fun to be had with 300+whp in the MSP, but the only time I can see it being used is high speed pulls. And even then you'll always be wondering if your transmission is going to hold. Spinning the tires at will seems like fun at first, but it gets old really quickly. You can buy stickier tires, but even if nothing breaks, buying new tires every year sucks.
At both the drag strip and the road courses, I see lots of incredibly fast FWD cars, so it can be done, but they also aren't usually daily drivers and often arrive at the track on a trailer.
So for a track car or just a hobby car, I am sure a big turbo would be fun, but as a daily driver, I think the T25 is perfect for the MSP (and as speedp said, if only Mazda gave us proper engine management).
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Even a stock EVO, STi or Cobalt SS for that matter are so infuriating to drive because of the lag I just couldn't ever bring myself to trade up from the MSP. So I never want to do anything that would diminish low end torque or response. However, the loss on these plots is negligible.
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so tru bro my evo had mad lag no power till around 4k rpms haha but once ur driving u wont be lower than 4k rpms so lag is not an issue unless ur at a dead stop
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
It's all in preference I'd rather have a little more lag with a lot more power.
I don't consider the msp light look at a lot of other small cars at that time and a lot of them are lighter. I consider Hondas light
I don't consider the msp light look at a lot of other small cars at that time and a lot of them are lighter. I consider Hondas light
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
I guess i'm the weirdest then...for a light weight FWD, the last thing i'm after in any degree is low-end torque...primary reason i've stayed NA for so long...bad part is that leaves tons of work for anything significant up high...
I have a Porsche 928 for torque...16 valve V8 with Espec computer and exhaust...dyno'd at 362 lb-ft of torque at 3300 rpm, and weighs about the same as a mazdaspeed 3...but had over 300 by a little over 2 grand...It only revs to 6,000 though, and only makes around 240whp up there...but for burning up little 225/50 16's...its a dream come true...considering i've modded almost nothing on it other than replaced the exhaust after it rusted out (and the computer because of some shorts), i'll take it...but an engine like that is exactly what turbocharged builders have been after for years...a mess of twist just above idle.
I have a Porsche 928 for torque...16 valve V8 with Espec computer and exhaust...dyno'd at 362 lb-ft of torque at 3300 rpm, and weighs about the same as a mazdaspeed 3...but had over 300 by a little over 2 grand...It only revs to 6,000 though, and only makes around 240whp up there...but for burning up little 225/50 16's...its a dream come true...considering i've modded almost nothing on it other than replaced the exhaust after it rusted out (and the computer because of some shorts), i'll take it...but an engine like that is exactly what turbocharged builders have been after for years...a mess of twist just above idle.
hornsfan10609
Certified Mazda Tech
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege x2
The only reason the msp doesn't have lag is because of the tiny ass t2554. There are reasons why every car you just named will easily outrun the msp, and all of them have a bigger turbo.
The turbo fits the stock MSP perfectly, every car he named (evo, sti, SS/TC) would outrun the MSP because they have over 100 more hp! The speed protege is a very light car especially compared to any new car sold today.
tweety2300
Member
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- 2001 mazda protege mp3
How do you figure? I'm going to have to run a t28 or t3 on my 323 with a lil 1.6. Maybe a stock msp its ok for but to actually make power and run more than 12 psi it's a no. But if you plan on building an msp the first thing that needs to go is the turbo
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Sti weighs 200 lbs less than the sti and the sti has over 100 hp on the msp + awd. Seriously comparing the msp to an sti or evo is like comparing a mustang to a corvette.
There's a difference between do able and efficient
There's a difference between do able and efficient
The MSP curb weight is 2843lbs. The STi curb weight is 3373lbs.
A stock STi is rated at 305hp at the flywheel, and loses about 20% on the way to the ground due to AWD. That is debatable, but if we go with an unbiased result like Car and Driver it's actually a little more on a Mustang dyno (which I'll admit is well known to show less than Dynojet).
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti2008-subaru-wrx-sti-initial-dyno-test.pdf
If I push all the variables in favor of the STi, the MSP still only needs around 220whp to match an STi in power to weight.
Think of it this way, they typically trap around 102mph in stock form with ET's in the mid 13s.
Look how many stock turbo MSPs have trapped higher than 102mph in our bragging rights list.
Any FWD car will need drag radials to match an AWD's traction advantage on ET, but if your goal was simply to beat a stock STi in a 1/4mile drag race, it certainly can be done with the stock turbo.
A stock STi is rated at 305hp at the flywheel, and loses about 20% on the way to the ground due to AWD. That is debatable, but if we go with an unbiased result like Car and Driver it's actually a little more on a Mustang dyno (which I'll admit is well known to show less than Dynojet).
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti2008-subaru-wrx-sti-initial-dyno-test.pdf
If I push all the variables in favor of the STi, the MSP still only needs around 220whp to match an STi in power to weight.
Think of it this way, they typically trap around 102mph in stock form with ET's in the mid 13s.
Look how many stock turbo MSPs have trapped higher than 102mph in our bragging rights list.
Any FWD car will need drag radials to match an AWD's traction advantage on ET, but if your goal was simply to beat a stock STi in a 1/4mile drag race, it certainly can be done with the stock turbo.
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
What I read on wiki was the sti is right at 3000, it weighs less than a wrx. But that's Wikipedia and we know how accurate that is.
I hope your talking about moded msps runing 13s. I did some research the t25 is pretty munched maxed out at 250 hp, so 200 is do able but, t28 would be puting out cooler air at 200 hp than the t25 because its not working as hard. Just depends on the builders preference
I hope your talking about moded msps runing 13s. I did some research the t25 is pretty munched maxed out at 250 hp, so 200 is do able but, t28 would be puting out cooler air at 200 hp than the t25 because its not working as hard. Just depends on the builders preference
tweety2300
Member
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- 2001 mazda protege mp3
And look at all the work done to yours lol
chomper149
Member
- :
- #1417 Titanium MSP
the 13s mentioned above are stated on the stock gt25, not necessarily a stock car. Just a modded car, probably 10psi but on the stock turbo still.
What I read on wiki was the sti is right at 3000, it weighs less than a wrx. But that's Wikipedia and we know how accurate that is.
I hope your talking about modded msps runing 13s. I did some research the t25 is pretty munched maxed out at 250 hp, so 200 is do able but, t28 would be puting out cooler air at 200 hp than the t25 because its not working as hard. Just depends on the builders preference
Yeah that is true, 250 is about where it runs out of steam. And yes, I am talking about a modded MSP. You are right about the cooler air, which is why a GT28RS will make more power at the same PSI than the stock T25 will. No argument there.
But that doesn't mean you can't get more than 250, it's just diminishing returns. You can see that mspeedP5 trapped 108.3mph, the fastest stock turbo trap speed, at 19psi. While blkzoomzoom was trapping 105.6mph on 12psi. It took 7 more psi to get another 2.7 mph. Now conditions were probably not identical, but you get the idea. 12psi is probably where the T25 should be on a 2.0L engine.
There is also the GT2560R which is our same turbo with a bigger compressor wheel which is rated from 200-330hp, which might be perfect for someone looking to keep stock'ish response but take the rest of the car to its hairy limits.
But the OP is looking for 200hp, and really the first thing that needs to be fixed on any MSP is the tune. There isn't really a great solution. All options have their drawbacks, but as long as you also get a wideband and an obdii scanner of some sorts, you can make due with an SSAFC or similar piggyback.
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- 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege 1660, 2004 Winning Blue RX8, 2005 Mazda6
And look at all the work done to yours lol
Yeah, lol. I've got like $3,000 in mods and he had a catback, intake and tuned on a Cobb Accessort... So that's like $1500 in mods... LOL Of course he paid triple for his car compared to what I paid...
Yeah, lol. I've got like $3,000 in mods and he had a catback, intake and tuned on a Cobb Accessort... So that's like $1500 in mods... LOL Of course he paid triple for his car compared to what I paid...
Was your trans built?
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