FrequentFlyer
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- 2008 CWP Mazdaspeed3
Do you have any evidence that cylinder #3 runs hotter than the rest?
My Hypertech Impressions
- Thread starter Darth Vader
- Start date
Do you have any evidence that cylinder #3 runs hotter than the rest?
No the only thing you can do is the intake selection on the stock tune with the HT.
Chris@Hypertech
Member
Chris@Hypertech
Member
(iagree)
Darth Vader
Member
You're unlikely to "snap rods" in lower gears, unless you totally overrev the thing. The load is highest in the higher gears.
When I disabled the boost nanny by using an MBC, it was pretty obvious why there's a restriction on there, given they have to sell the car to all types of drivers, not just enthusiasts. The detonation of power, massive torque steer and incineration of tires was pretty ferocious and would most likely make most customers cower in terror. (drive2)
When I disabled the boost nanny by using an MBC, it was pretty obvious why there's a restriction on there, given they have to sell the car to all types of drivers, not just enthusiasts. The detonation of power, massive torque steer and incineration of tires was pretty ferocious and would most likely make most customers cower in terror. (drive2)
I'm not sure Hypetech can answer why Mazda did something. And I'm only guessing like everyone else.
My view is that it was done to protect the drive train and not the engine. As you go down in gears, you multiply torque. So, first gear has much, much higher torque being delivered to the transaxle, the final drive gears, half shafts, CV joints, etc. than in 5th or 6th. Torque breaks things. Mazda is probably just playing it safe.
As far as the engine is concerned, the engine is actually under less load in the lower gears and load increases as the final drive ratio gets closer to 1:1 or even in overdrive, for the same engine speed. That's why I think that if there are any true internal engine weaknesses that are subject to excessive torque, they would likely happen most frequently when in the higher gears at lower rpm, where load is highest but torque would be high too, like at around 2,700-3,000 rpm in 5th or 6th gear and going WOT.
Another reason the limitation maybe there is that the stock tires just go up in smoke at WOT in first and second gear anyway, certainly so when you do any mods to the car. I can't use the reduced power there now. With my mods, my 60 ft. times and even my 0-60 mph times have improved hardly at all, although times are much more quicker once I get traction. Any launch enough to turn the tires over will toast them unless I feather the throttle and granny shift 1-2 and save the flat shifting until 2-3 and higher.
I see the advantage of eliminating the hold back as being for a more "peppy" throttle response in less than full WOT drop clutch situations, or (if you are brave enough and rich enough to pay for broken parts) for use with very sticky front tires like DOT drag radials or true slicks. It might also be of benefit in some autocross situations, as would the ability to hold power above 6,000 rpm without having to shift up to third gear in autocross.
I'm speculating a bit, because I've just ordered the Hypertech yesterday and will begin playing with it soon. I don't expect the extra power in first and second gear to help my 0-60, which seems to me to be traction limited.
My view is that it was done to protect the drive train and not the engine. As you go down in gears, you multiply torque. So, first gear has much, much higher torque being delivered to the transaxle, the final drive gears, half shafts, CV joints, etc. than in 5th or 6th. Torque breaks things. Mazda is probably just playing it safe.
As far as the engine is concerned, the engine is actually under less load in the lower gears and load increases as the final drive ratio gets closer to 1:1 or even in overdrive, for the same engine speed. That's why I think that if there are any true internal engine weaknesses that are subject to excessive torque, they would likely happen most frequently when in the higher gears at lower rpm, where load is highest but torque would be high too, like at around 2,700-3,000 rpm in 5th or 6th gear and going WOT.
Another reason the limitation maybe there is that the stock tires just go up in smoke at WOT in first and second gear anyway, certainly so when you do any mods to the car. I can't use the reduced power there now. With my mods, my 60 ft. times and even my 0-60 mph times have improved hardly at all, although times are much more quicker once I get traction. Any launch enough to turn the tires over will toast them unless I feather the throttle and granny shift 1-2 and save the flat shifting until 2-3 and higher.
I see the advantage of eliminating the hold back as being for a more "peppy" throttle response in less than full WOT drop clutch situations, or (if you are brave enough and rich enough to pay for broken parts) for use with very sticky front tires like DOT drag radials or true slicks. It might also be of benefit in some autocross situations, as would the ability to hold power above 6,000 rpm without having to shift up to third gear in autocross.
I'm speculating a bit, because I've just ordered the Hypertech yesterday and will begin playing with it soon. I don't expect the extra power in first and second gear to help my 0-60, which seems to me to be traction limited.
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Is it possible that while you guys are working on the 2010 model, you can add the ability to control idle speed, radiator fan control, and maybe boost limits ? And then offer them to all year models ? I believe this product is selling really well, and adding those features would only boost sales (cabpatch). I think you mentioned that you offer those features for the Camaro tune.
I think that most people on this and the other forum would agree that those features would be well worthed !
No. Just radiator fan control I think. lol
Chris@Hypertech
Member
I think MSMS3 is on the mark with his post. It's more for vehicle control at wide open throttle.
I've worked in the aftermarket performance/racing industry for 15 years, 5 of those years for a company that manufactured connecting rods, and I've never seen a rod break due to low RPM torque. Most connecting rod failures I have seen where the the rod was actually the cause of the failure was from stress. Heat and fatigue from high RPM's are usually are the cause of these types of failures. Engines with extreme cylinder pressures, such as turbocharged, supercharged, and nitrous assisted engines can add more stress to a connecting rod in high RPM conditions, but typically low RPM torque levels don't cause those types of failures.
The load on the rod increases as RPM increases. Stresses from increased cylinder pressure from increased boost levels at higher RPMs can cause stress failures, but the biggest rod killers on these cars is going to be detonation. Detonation can almost double combustion pressures. Incorrect ignition timing, lean air/fuel ratios, and increased boost pressures at high load and high RPM's are the main causes of detonation (the dreaded knock!) on these engines.
The Mazda ECU has a very sophisticated knock control system built in to keep detonation from tearing up your engine. That is why having the mass air calculations correct is such a big deal, and why we don't remove the factory protecton systems with the Hypertech tune.
Running a large air intake without the MAF reading corrected will make a bit more power, but the resulting increase in boost, and leaner WOT air/fuel ratios make it more succeptable to knock (detonation), and engine failure.
And as Darth said, the load on the engine is greater in the higher gears, at the lower RPMs. That is when the engine is most succeptable to detonation. The torque spike itself isn't what will kill the rods, it's the stress caused by detonation from excessive boost and lean air/fuel ratios (and bad tuning) that accompany the torque spike. That is why we keep the boost levels in check, and make sure the tune maintains the proper air/fuel ratios to reduce the risk of evil(evil) detonation.
Chris
Chris@Hypertech
Member
No, we didn't see any measurable difference in EGT's from cylinder to cylinder.
Chris
Chris@Hypertech
Member
Yes, we can. We should be able to offer any additional features on the release of the 2010 tuning, and roll them into an update for the older cars.
We probably won't ever offer a user adjustment for boost limits, unless you wanted to lower them. Raising the boost levels any higher than what we have already tuned for are just not safe for the factory turbo. We market and sell our Sport programmers as a safe tune, so adding an option to raise the boost would increase the chance for someone inadvertantly damaging their engine.
Maybe someday we will be able to offer a race programmer with those types of features...
Chris
