Mazdaspeed2oo35 Engine Build Round 2

[Wagonbacker9]

another shop blowing smoke up your asshole and you like the smell? miguel, please, learn from past mistakes. Heed the advice given here. You claim following advice here is what got you where you are... I heartily disagree. Doing just the opposite, and ignoring it, or asking the wrong questions is what got you here. If you want this to work for you, exactly what you need to do has been laid out for you.

If you need to invest your money more wisely, then hold off on rebuilding the MSP. Having to maintain a business is no excuse for half assing a build. Cutting corners because you're strapped for cash is just BEGGING for a blown up engine.

 

[yellowmsp035]

do what ive done.. ive put a hold on my build since money got thinner then before and i picked up new hobbies instead of paycheck after paycheck to my car...

take a break man, and finish it slowly. it will get done RIGHT and will be the last time you do it, therefore being a lot more rewarding in the end and a lot less headache along the way.

building a car is supposed to be a fun process and learning curve. something you do for yourself, not anyone else. you havent learned much with yours since you are just listening to a mechanic tell you what to do and paying a bill at the end.

have fun with the build, take your time, do it right, and do it for yourself. push your own limits to see what you can produce with your own drive and determination and knowledge. EDUCATE yourself.

means A LOT more when it finally turns over and runs like a champ.

im still waiting for that day for my satisfaction

 

[kz9]

No offense, I love ur ride, but in your sig you say "built not Bought''? Have you ever pulled and installed your engine before?



Dude, you need to just chill out about this crazy HP. The FS is not made for it. If you want to have a reliable ride, buy a block, and put in stock or .20 bore pistons in it.

DO NOT reuse the bearings! Buy new.

I don't mean to be a dick, just tryin to help you out.....

 

[Maxx Mazda]

No offense, I love ur ride, but in your sig you say "built not Bought''? Have you ever pulled and installed your engine before?



Dude, you need to just chill out about this crazy HP. The FS is not made for it. If you want to have a reliable ride, buy a block, and put in stock or .20 bore pistons in it.

DO NOT reuse the bearings! Buy new.

I don't mean to be a dick, just tryin to help you out.....

I think he's confused. It should say "bought not built" hahaha

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

Guys get off his ass, That is not relevant to this thread. Also you all have told him over and over to get a new block but he is wanting to get a cheap fix. Just let it be, time will tell, and time never lies.

 

[03.5MSP]

Lordworm is right again. They can't possibly sleeve it properly for fifty euros a hole. The reason why tbk was sleeving all the Mazda 3 blocks is because they're open deck (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) but for the FS I agree here still, put a new stock block in it. Since this car is apparently a dyno queen, I need to ask what is your horsepower goal? I think you're being unreasonable and just wanting to put down a big number. My turbo is slightly larger than yours and I've cranked it up to 32psi before on race gas. Guess what?it wasn't fun! Besides grenading my tranny at the top of 4th gear, the car was almost scary. It was wheelspin city, and I run some good ass BFG's I'd hate to see what your "nankangs" are like. I ended up dialing it back down to about 26psi for fun and 18 for daily driving. Trust me man, I've been there and it is MORE FUN to dial it down a bit and KNOW it will hold vs running at the limit of man and machine.

Damn Maxx, I didnt know your P5 was that beastly. I mean I know you had alot of stuff done, but damn.

 

[LordWorm]

The reason why tbk was sleeving all the Mazda 3 blocks is because they're open deck (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) .

Dead right. Open deck motors lack stiffness. Generally the stock sleeves (alloy blocks are generally sleeved anyway) are replaced, and a "block guard" is installed to effectively close the deck. In really insane setups, the block is filled with a cement type stuff, which effectively removes all cooling passages but makes the engine almost as strong as an iron block (the sleeves, generally, are stronger anyway - so the cementing is just about further increasing the overall stiffness). Of course, these motors are very prone to overheating, and are run for often minutes at a time - enough to burnout, stage, race, and shut down for a tow to the pits where a honking great big fan is waiting to blow air over the block to keep it from overheating. Needless to say, that level of sleeving is reserved for drag cars.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Guys get off his ass, That is not relevant to this thread. Also you all have told him over and over to get a new block but he is wanting to get a cheap fix. Just let it be, time will tell, and time never lies.

I'm not wanting to do a cheap fix, i'm tired of hearing this BS.. Every single person in here worries about the money that have to be spend, Things in here in SPAIN are completely different from USA, you guys there dont' have damn customs or custom fees to worry in here they charge a damn arm and a leg for anything that comes from US then parts in here are insanely expensive if a set of good pistons runs in us for $ 600 in here they run for $ 1300-1400 and of course is not the same isn't ? or you don't give a s*** about the price of parts ? we all do cause basically we all aint rich people at least im not. Im trying to find a damn FS block in here and is hard ass hell Already called almost every single Junk Yard and they don't have any mazda with that engine specs, plus they will not sell you only the short block they will sell you the entire s*** and some will include the tranny, you wanna know how much a FS engine runs in here ? 900-1400 Euros now Multiply that by 1.45 and you tell me i'm being cheap. Bringing a block from US will be also expensive ass hell. I might find a good used block in here for $ 100-200 but then shipping will be insane not to mention the custom fees i have to pay for it when it gets here, So now you understand im not being cheap is just common sense i need to fix this car in the best way spending the less but doing it right you get my point ? i've never being cheap on anything on my car and for those who said i didn't built it, i did it this time, i've putted my entire engine together and most of the stuff in the car in the shop my car is right now, they did what i didn't know what to do but anyways paying and doing it your self is the same s*** if the final result are good.

 

[LordWorm]

I'm not wanting to do a cheap fix, i'm tired of hearing this BS

50 euro's per cylinder on a solution that is almost guarenteed to end in tears is a cheap fix.

.. Every single person in here worries about the money that have to be spend, Things in here in SPAIN are completely different from USA, you guys there dont' have damn customs or custom fees to worry in here they charge a damn arm and a leg for anything that comes from US then parts in here are insanely expensive if a set of good pistons runs in us for $ 600 in here they run for $ 1300-1400 and of course is not the same isn't ?

of course its not the same, but stuff costs more in just about every country other than the USA - yet people all over the world manage to build very strong, very powerful motors without complaining about the apparent costs.

or you don't give a s*** about the price of parts ? we all do cause basically we all aint rich people at least im not.

To quote the owner of this forum, you gotta Pay if you wanna Play... you've built yourself an engine that demands a constant flow of cash to keep happy. Everyone here for the last dozen of so pages has been telling you a way to SAVE money. buying a block may cost more up front, but in the end the motor will be MORE RELIABLE and COST YOU LESS.

If you continue down this path of cheaping out, or doing excess "race only" mods without the slightest understanding of what that means, you are ALWAYS going to have your wallet open. Take a mere 200hp off your insane 600hp goal, and the engine will be about 3x more reliable. Back that off to a neat 350hp at the wheels and you will NEVER HAVE TO OPEN THE MOTOR AGAIN (and, your car will be faster. Oh sure, it wont make huge horsepower numbers on the dyno, but if thats all you give a s*** about, you should get rid of the protege, and buy something with a 2JZ - then you can make 1400 horsepower).

Im trying to find a damn FS block in here and is hard ass hell Already called almost every single Junk Yard and they don't have any mazda with that engine specs, plus they will not sell you only the short block they will sell you the entire s*** and some will include the tranny,

so they don't have any FS motors but will sell you an FS motor? that made no sense at all.

you wanna know how much a FS engine runs in here ? 900-1400 Euros now Multiply that by 1.45 and you tell me i'm being cheap.

so? a decent low km example of the FSDE from a wrecking yard here costs about $2500 AUD (for full motor in good condition with all accessories etc) - yet they manage to sell them and constantly have new stock on a monthly basis. It costs what it costs. Your 200 euro sleeve job is going to cost you A LOT more than 1400 euros. Want a clue as to why? well, you're going to need a new block anyway, when you punch a hole in the side of the block, damage the crank, smash valves, crack the head, and an array of other stuff that I can almost absolutely guarentee WILL HAPPEN if you continue with this madness.

Bringing a block from US will be also expensive ass hell. I might find a good used block in here for $ 100-200 but then shipping will be insane not to mention the custom fees i have to pay for it when it gets here, So now you understand im not being cheap is just common sense i need to fix this car in the best way spending the less but doing it right you get my point ?

But you are cheaping out. You've heard of a $200 euro fix. A fix that is not going to work. A fix that is going to cost you more money. You say you want to do things right, but you are doing just about everything imaginable wrong. And short of brow beating you i don't know how anyone in here can get that through to you. You've got Maxx who has burnt up an absolute sh!t tonne of parts, who is (despite your attitude) still trying to convince you that you are doomed to repeat his mistakes - its not because he wants to rag on your build, i'm sure he appreciates tough FSDEs as much as the next person - its because he is genuinely concerned that you are going to blow crap.

Also, why not buy the motor from ANOTHER COUNTRY IN EUROPE. I'm sure europe consists of more than Spain - many other european countries had cars with this motor delivered. And whilst you will still need to pay customs, the shipping costs will be far lower - and you'll get it sooner via ground freight.

You've got Edwin running around in circles - basically TELLING you exactly what you need to do to get the job done and you ignore everything he says. You're ignoring everything i'm saying. You're ignoring everything everyone else is saying - here's a thought - if every person on this forum is telling you that you're doing it wrong, do you think that you might be doing it wrong?

i've never being cheap on anything on my car and for those who said i didn't built it, i did it this time, i've putted my entire engine together and most of the stuff in the car in the shop my car is right now, they did what i didn't know what to do but anyways paying and doing it your self is the same s*** if the final result are good.

I don't care who built it. But it seems everyone who has had a go at building it has screwed it up.

I'm not trying to rag on your build, but its incredibly frustrating when you take the time to explain why things are wrong, and you cheap out and go with a solution that is doomed to failure anyway - then jump back in here when s*** goes wrong, and demand yet more advice that you promptly turn around and ignore.

Half the time i'm not sure whether to laugh at, cry over or walk away from this thread. You could have had an incredible car - instead you've got a very expensive grenade. It seems you will not be happy until the whole thing blows up in your face.....

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

50 euro's per cylinder on a solution that is almost guarenteed to end in tears is a cheap fix.

of course its not the same, but stuff costs more in just about every country other than the USA - yet people all over the world manage to build very strong, very powerful motors without complaining about the apparent costs.

To quote the owner of this forum, you gotta Pay if you wanna Play... you've built yourself an engine that demands a constant flow of cash to keep happy. Everyone here for the last dozen of so pages has been telling you a way to SAVE money. buying a block may cost more up front, but in the end the motor will be MORE RELIABLE and COST YOU LESS.

If you continue down this path of cheaping out, or doing excess "race only" mods without the slightest understanding of what that means, you are ALWAYS going to have your wallet open. Take a mere 200hp off your insane 600hp goal, and the engine will be about 3x more reliable. Back that off to a neat 350hp at the wheels and you will NEVER HAVE TO OPEN THE MOTOR AGAIN (and, your car will be faster. Oh sure, it wont make huge horsepower numbers on the dyno, but if thats all you give a s*** about, you should get rid of the protege, and buy something with a 2JZ - then you can make 1400 horsepower).


so they don't have any FS motors but will sell you an FS motor? that made no sense at all.


so? a decent low km example of the FSDE from a wrecking yard here costs about $2500 AUD (for full motor in good condition with all accessories etc) - yet they manage to sell them and constantly have new stock on a monthly basis. It costs what it costs. Your 200 euro sleeve job is going to cost you A LOT more than 1400 euros. Want a clue as to why? well, you're going to need a new block anyway, when you punch a hole in the side of the block, damage the crank, smash valves, crack the head, and an array of other stuff that I can almost absolutely guarentee WILL HAPPEN if you continue with this madness.


But you are cheaping out. You've heard of a $200 euro fix. A fix that is not going to work. A fix that is going to cost you more money. You say you want to do things right, but you are doing just about everything imaginable wrong. And short of brow beating you i don't know how anyone in here can get that through to you. You've got Maxx who has burnt up an absolute sh!t tonne of parts, who is (despite your attitude) still trying to convince you that you are doomed to repeat his mistakes - its not because he wants to rag on your build, i'm sure he appreciates tough FSDEs as much as the next person - its because he is genuinely concerned that you are going to blow crap.

Also, why not buy the motor from ANOTHER COUNTRY IN EUROPE. I'm sure europe consists of more than Spain - many other european countries had cars with this motor delivered. And whilst you will still need to pay customs, the shipping costs will be far lower - and you'll get it sooner via ground freight.

You've got Edwin running around in circles - basically TELLING you exactly what you need to do to get the job done and you ignore everything he says. You're ignoring everything i'm saying. You're ignoring everything everyone else is saying - here's a thought - if every person on this forum is telling you that you're doing it wrong, do you think that you might be doing it wrong?


I don't care who built it. But it seems everyone who has had a go at building it has screwed it up.

I'm not trying to rag on your build, but its incredibly frustrating when you take the time to explain why things are wrong, and you cheap out and go with a solution that is doomed to failure anyway - then jump back in here when s*** goes wrong, and demand yet more advice that you promptly turn around and ignore.

Half the time i'm not sure whether to laugh at, cry over or walk away from this thread. You could have had an incredible car - instead you've got a very expensive grenade. It seems you will not be happy until the whole thing blows up in your face.....

Well either theres a languagare barrier in here or something else is happening. I'm not being cheap how many times i have to explain this whole situation..............

The machine shop charges 50 Euros per sleeve, then you have to add the labor and machining the block probably i didn't say this from the begining is not a 200 euros either job is more but it will definitely be less than buying an entire engine that i only need the block and not the rest of the parts, what am i going to do with the rest store it ? trow it away after paying for them? , About the FS Engine These engines in here are very rare, mazda Itselft is a very rare and expensive car here in Spain, i was just saying no Junk Yard will sell me only the block they will sell me the entire engine even with the transmission since theres no demand for these engines they want to get rid off everything because after they wont sell s***, if you only take the block, they can't later sell the head or the transmission you get the point ? Im not being cheap and also i didn't say I WILL SLEEVE THE BLOCK i was asking for some inputs in here before deciding that, in the mean time i was sourcing a used block to just hone it add standard size pistons and that's about it, but buying a block itself in here is complicated cause they aint many plus the amount of cash they want for them. Bringing one from US will cost alot plus buying something so delicate overseas without knowing the condition of it and paying a very high shipping and custom fees is something to take into consideration Thats not also being cheap, at this point i don't give a s*** anymore about making more HP than what it did I'm happy to be the first to hit 515whp on a 3rd Gen Protege but that's about it..... I just want to have it back at the road have fun with it, and later Sell it to buy my kids a house I will get a very very good amount of money for it in here.

Well do you know anybody that is selling for a descent amount of cash an FS Block with Standard bore ? if you do let me know and quote me shipping for it, my Zipcode is 29620 SPAIN i don't give a s*** if the shipping is by Sea.


Well i think I will Sell my Pauter Rods and my J&S Safeguard and i'll just ******* contact SAM and get a damn Built short Block and i'll safe damn headaches and just get it shipped by Sea. or if anybody is willing to sell be in a good price a used FS block PM me Thanks this BEING CHEAP s*** is getting on my nerves...

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Well either theres a languagare barrier in here or something else is happening. I'm not being cheap how many times i have to explain this whole situation..............

you've done this exact same thing before. you assume we can all read every thought you have going on behind what you're saying, and the simple fact is, all we know is what you put into words on here.

The machine shop charges 50 Euros per sleeve, then you have to add the labor and machining the block probably i didn't say this from the begining is not a 200 euros either job is more but it will definitely be less than buying an entire engine that i only need the block and not the rest of the parts, what am i going to do with the rest store it ? trow it away after paying for them?

this is the first you've mentioned of a labor charge on top of the sleeve cost. and its been explained that doing this, is going to cause your engine to grenade at some point... thats just whats going to happen.
Resell it? Stash it for spare parts? You're a business man, I'm sure you could figure it out.

About the FS Engine These engines in here are very rare, mazda Itselft is a very rare and expensive car here in Spain, i was just saying no Junk Yard will sell me only the block they will sell me the entire engine even with the transmission since theres no demand for these engines they want to get rid off everything because after they wont sell s***, if you only take the block, they can't later sell the head or the transmission you get the point ?

If there is no demand you should be able to negociate them down easily... simple economics.

Im not being cheap and also i didn't say I WILL SLEEVE THE BLOCK i was asking for some inputs in here before deciding that, in the mean time i was sourcing a used block to just hone it add standard size pistons and that's about it, but buying a block itself in here is complicated cause they aint many plus the amount of cash they want for them. Bringing one from US will cost alot plus buying something so delicate overseas without knowing the condition of it and paying a very high shipping and custom fees is something to take into consideration Thats not also being cheap, at this point i don't give a s*** anymore about making more HP than what it did I'm happy to be the first to hit 515whp on a 3rd Gen Protege but that's about it..... I just want to have it back at the road have fun with it, and later Sell it to buy my kids a house I will get a very very good amount of money for it in here.

and you've gotten input back on that... just because its not the input you want you sound like you're ignoring it. maybe you're not, but you've been seriously resistant to any idea but your own, and your argument here is living proof of it.

Well do you know anybody that is selling for a descent amount of cash an FS Block with Standard bore ? if you do let me know and quote me shipping for it, my Zipcode is 29620 SPAIN i don't give a s*** if the shipping is by Sea.

There are like at least 2 of them in the FS section now.

Well i think I will Sell my Pauter Rods and my J&S Safeguard and i'll just ******* contact SAM and get a damn Built short Block and i'll safe damn headaches and just get it shipped by Sea. or if anybody is willing to sell be in a good price a used FS block PM me Thanks this BEING CHEAP s*** is getting on my nerves...

selling the J&S is the stupidest move you could make. If anybody needs one of those, its you. I thought a built short block was too expensive! make up your mind! lol

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

you've done this exact same thing before. you assume we can all read every thought you have going on behind what you're saying, and the simple fact is, all we know is what you put into words on here.

this is the first you've mentioned of a labor charge on top of the sleeve cost. and its been explained that doing this, is going to cause your engine to grenade at some point... thats just whats going to happen.
Resell it? Stash it for spare parts? You're a business man, I'm sure you could figure it out.

If there is no demand you should be able to negociate them down easily... simple economics.



and you've gotten input back on that... just because its not the input you want you sound like you're ignoring it. maybe you're not, but you've been seriously resistant to any idea but your own, and your argument here is living proof of it.


There are like at least 2 of them in the FS section now.


selling the J&S is the stupidest move you could make. If anybody needs one of those, its you. I thought a built short block was too expensive! make up your mind! lol

by any chance do you have the links on those blocks if is not too much to ask, thanks

 

[special--k]

I think everyone in here need to Calm the **** down. Everyone was cheering him on before the drama started, and now your all attacking him!

Im a fan of your build, it too bad it didnt work out the first time. if you are going to buy a new block anyways, why not try the sleeve first. Its going to be 200+ EUROs and you might be able to get away with it. I guess you risk causing damage to the head and crank, but if the machine shop give you a guarantee then cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

heres one already built

Ken is selling one

and Scott (dstmsp03) was the 3rd he doesn't have one but apparently said he can source one.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

I think everyone in here need to Calm the **** down. Everyone was cheering him on before the drama started, and now your all attacking him!

Im a fan of your build, it too bad it didnt work out the first time. if you are going to buy a new block anyways, why not try the sleeve first. Its going to be 200+ EUROs and you might be able to get away with it. I guess you risk causing damage to the head and crank, but if the machine shop give you a guarantee then cross that bridge when you come to it.

seriously, at the power levels hes talking... sleeving an already cast block is just ASKING to trash thousands of dollars worth of parts and labor. no one is attacking him, we're trying to look out for him, and he's fighting us.

unless that guarantee covers the cost of parts and labor for everything destroyed when the engine fails, its a bad bad idea. and even then, when it fails, his car goes down again, for lord knows how long.

 

[ogsp5]

Hey man, ask Alejo to look for a block here in SFLA in one of the local junk yards. The shipping of the block might be cheaper. The only place I know is Al Japs but they sell complete JDM long blocks.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Hey man, ask Alejo to look for a block here in SFLA in one of the local junk yards. The shipping of the block might be cheaper. The only place I know is Al Japs but they sell complete JDM long blocks.

Good idea, i might ask him to source me a block and find out about shipping, he is a very good friend of mine and a person i trust.

 

[CulRidr]

heres one already built

Ken is selling one

and Scott (dstmsp03) was the 3rd he doesn't have one but apparently said he can source one.

That first one is useless for him since it was built for the parts that are in it, which in this case, are high compression pistons. The whole thing was built to be an NA engine so this is no good and would be a waste of money since parts in there would be redundant for Miguel and cost him an arm to clear customs due to the high value (plus he would prefer to sell locally last I read)

 

[Wagonbacker9]

just throwing out options...

 

[CulRidr]

The others were good options and I'm sure he appreciates it, but that one doesn't make logistical/economical sense for Miguel