Mazdaspeed2oo35 Engine Build Round 2

[LordWorm]

Wow... LordWorm just said it better than anyone could...

its a gift

 

[TheMAN]

$500 = small insurance policy. What is the ENTIRE rotating assembly in your engine worth? pistons? rods? cams? valves?... if you had to rebuild the ENTIRE thing, replacing EVERYTHING - what would it cost you? a lot more than $500 + custom fees etc.

If you can't afford it, then you really cannot afford to do what you're doing with this motor. People pay a small fortune for replacement engines - in my country its nothing to fork over $2000+ for a used motor, especially on motors that are difficult to come by. In the scheme of things, next to all the money you've spent, a replacement block (and all you need is the short motor, you don't need everything else) is small fry.

I also find it hard to believe you cannot get an FSDE from somewhere in europe that would cost you less to import than from the USA. Even if you can't get an FSDE, there are plenty of *other* engine options which are far more conducive to making the kind of horsepower you are thinking about making (the FE3N will put down 500hp on stock internals, the KLZE has the benefit of vastly more displacement).

you *may* be able to push the overbore further than permitted - but each time you do you will significanty reduce the lifespan of the engine. You suggest this car is a daily driver - a daily driver should be reliable, and withstand a good 100 000 miles without needing to open it up again *at least*. The kind of agressive overbores, and massive power numbers you are going for are the sorts of things you might see in a race motor that's rebuilt every 1000 miles. Add to that, you're not spending the money in the right places to support a race only motor, and you've got a grenade on your hands.

Frankly you are going to be up for a new block *anyway*. if you proceed with this kind of madness, you WILL destroy your engine, in a catastrophic sense. At that point, you're going to need to buy a new block and replace a lot of expensive parts you will burn up in the process. Knowing that blowing up your engine is a reality, spending the money on a new block now will actually save you money in the long run.

And I'll say it again, 600hp on a street driven front wheel drive car is insane. Either call it what it is, a dyno queen/race car, OR dial the power down to something more reasonable, and usable, and have something that is reliable and pleasant to drive. Just because the Puerto Rican's have made north of 600hp on the engine doesn't mean its a good idea to do it for a street car. And I'd hazard a guess they have done it right, and are still rebuilding the engines with monotonous regularity.

Whilst I may not always see eye to eye with Maxx and Edwin on some things - they are right on the money here. You're building an engine that is on borrowed time the second you fire it up. You'll be lucky to see 2 full tanks of gas in the thing before theres a hole the size of a watermelon in the side of the block.

I also have a hard time believing you can't find an FS-DE in europe... there's tons of 626s sold in eastern europe as well as germany.... you'll also find these in the UK... I understand that 323F sports are rare, but 626s aren't quite as rare... any 93-02 block (outside of US/canada ONLY) will work because they're the same block as the protege's (mazda did weird s*** to the USDM 93-97 626/mx6/probe blocks and cheaped them out) so long as you put in all the s*** from your block into the "new" block (only some 626s came with forged cranks)... hell, if you're lucky, you might even find a 99-01 MPV FS-DE, which supposedly has a bigger oil cooler... how can you explain me finding all sorts of junk yard EDM parts for my cars? DO NOT say "oh that's because you're smart"... bulls***! it's called spending the TIME AND EFFORT to find the right people, dig through the right places who will deal with me and getting the s*** shipped to me... it takes patience and it doesn't happen right away, which unfortunately seems like he's trying to do is get results "now"... good work at a good price doesn't happen overnight! also, there's tons of european mazda boards, even if they're not in english or spanish, it doesn't hurt to drop a post in both languages asking for help... I'm sure there's someone who isn't a xenophobic asshole that'll help you... otherwise, resort to google translate/bablefish or just learn basic french and german, the OTHER main european languages (which is something encouraged if you live in europe anyway... most people there know at least 3 languages)

the FE3 motor is possible too... it ought to bolt right in with the diesel tranny, motor mounts, and axles, but it's going to take effort to make it work right for all the obvious reasons PLUS having to swap gears out of our stock tranny into the diesel case because the gearing is too tall

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Thanks People all of these advices that have leaded me where i am now, why not listeting one more time.... Ill try to source a Standard bore block and just trow standard size pistons on it, I guess ill try to find a FS block in here i know it will be to damn hard since i went to all local Junk Yards for one, 323 F Mazdas doesnt exist in the damn Junk Yards, Edwin what other models of Mazdas carries that block in here in Europe ? what 626 ? Thanks in advance to all of you..


NOw i need to know what car has same block and if i could use my Crank on it since its in perfect condition plus bearings were made to spec. Thanks..



I have found and sent an email requesting info and price.

http://www.desguaceelcordobes.com/articulo_ficha.aspx?Key=003D01.000n129109975

 

[.mazda.speed.]

search, google is your friend

 

[Maxx Mazda]

That link you posted is perfect. You can even sell that intake mani or use it yourself so you dont have to wait on the 505 manifold. Same with the valve cover and coil setup.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

That link you posted is perfect. You can even sell that intake mani or use it yourself so you dont have to wait on the 505 manifold. Same with the valve cover and coil setup.

But the thing is my ACL bearings were made to the specs of my crank, and i was wondering if i could use my crank on that block Google wont help me on that..


If i dont find a good block i will put sleeves on my Block and just use 0.20 over pistons again the machine shop told me they will guarantee the sleeves to hold what ever HP the engine makes without problems, that might be a good solution since they only charged € 50 euros per sleeve...

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

That link you posted is perfect. You can even sell that intake mani or use it yourself so you dont have to wait on the 505 manifold. Same with the valve cover and coil setup.

What link?

 

[Wagonbacker9]

But the thing is my ACL bearings were made to the specs of my crank, and i was wondering if i could use my crank on that block Google wont help me on that..


If i dont find a good block i will put sleeves on my Block and just use 0.20 over pistons again the machine shop told me they will guarantee the sleeves to hold what ever HP the engine makes without problems, that might be a good solution since they only charged 50 euros per sleeve...

you can use the bearings if the journals are the same, and both sides are machined to the same spec... generally bearings are made to fit your application, not the other way around.

 

[Shadow102]

But the thing is my ACL bearings were made to the specs of my crank, and i was wondering if i could use my crank on that block Google wont help me on that..


If i dont find a good block i will put sleeves on my Block and just use 0.20 over pistons again the machine shop told me they will guarantee the sleeves to hold what ever HP the engine makes without problems, that might be a good solution since they only charged 50 euros per sleeve...

worse case you just need new main bearings which shouldnt be too much money

 

[Maxx Mazda]

What link?

Post #1023

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Post #1023

Do you think is a better or good idea to just put Sleeves to the block to make it stronger and to be able to re-install .020 over pistons ? i need quite some help to decide.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Do you think is a better or good idea to just put Sleeves to the block to make it stronger and to be able to re-install .020 over pistons ? i need quite some help to decide.

No. The stock block is cast iron, pretty strong stuff. It's far cheaper and will last longer just to buy a new block and put stock size pistons in it if you can.

 

[Ricktalife]

And I'll say it again, 600hp on a street driven front wheel drive car is insane. Either call it what it is, a dyno queen/race car, OR dial the power down to something more reasonable, and usable, and have something that is reliable and pleasant to drive. Just because the Puerto Rican's have made north of 600hp on the engine doesn't mean its a good idea to do it for a street car. And I'd hazard a guess they have done it right, and are still rebuilding the engines with monotonous regularity.

Miguel I think it's totally awesome but hilarious that you're doing all this. Awesome that you took an MSP (I <3 mine) and made it into a monster, but hilarious that you still think it is considered a DD. Also, I would like to point out that I would never want to compare myself to a Puerto Rican as far as who has the cooler car, since most of the cars they get a hold of turn out like this:

IMO you have already beaten them by keeping your appearance mods tasteful.

 

[Shadow102]

Miguel I think it's totally awesome but hilarious that you're doing all this. Awesome that you took an MSP (I <3 mine) and made it into a monster, but hilarious that you still think it is considered a DD. Also, I would like to point out that I would never want to compare myself to a Puerto Rican as far as who has the cooler car, since most of the cars they get a hold of turn out like this:



IMO you have already beaten them by keeping your appearance mods tasteful.

i dunno about everyone else but when i think about puerto ricans and horsepower i think of things like old starlets, corollas, rotary cars ect make stupid amount of power...ie watch this (seen some of these guys run when i lived in jersey)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y4uyPsLJDk

 

[Ricktalife]

LOL a p5.

 

[CulRidr]

Not sure why you posted this; Edwin answered all those questions in the previous post. Maxx said that the '97 block was perfect but Edwin says otherwise for non-specific reasons regarding the quality of the block...the block would therefore work but not be perfect which with your build would be a mistake.

Thanks People all of these advices that have leaded me where i am now, why not listeting one more time.... Ill try to source a Standard bore block and just trow standard size pistons on it, I guess ill try to find a FS block in here i know it will be to damn hard since i went to all local Junk Yards for one, 323 F Mazdas doesnt exist in the damn Junk Yards, Edwin what other models of Mazdas carries that block in here in Europe ? what 626 ? Thanks in advance to all of you..


NOw i need to know what car has same block and if i could use my Crank on it since its in perfect condition plus bearings were made to spec. Thanks..



I have found and sent an email requesting info and price.

http://www.desguaceelcordobes.com/articulo_ficha.aspx?Key=003D01.000n129109975

 

[LordWorm]

Do you think is a better or good idea to just put Sleeves to the block to make it stronger and to be able to re-install .020 over pistons ? i need quite some help to decide.

sleaving generally involves removing lots of material (often including water galleries) and installing the sleeves in place of the cylinder walls. Again, you're into "race only" territory here (unless you drive a car with an open deck, then sleeving and closing the deck is highly advantageous....but the FSDE is closed deck to begin with - wouldn't consider this unless you were looking at building a drag car). Sleeving will likely cost you more than replacement block too....

just do a new block, hone and run stock bore, and happy days.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

sleaving generally involves removing lots of material (often including water galleries) and installing the sleeves in place of the cylinder walls. Again, you're into "race only" territory here (unless you drive a car with an open deck, then sleeving and closing the deck is highly advantageous....but the FSDE is closed deck to begin with - wouldn't consider this unless you were looking at building a drag car). Sleeving will likely cost you more than replacement block too....

just do a new block, hone and run stock bore, and happy days.

`Thanks for the advice but in this particular case Sleeving the block is cheaper than getting a new block, they are charging me 50 Euros for each cylinder guarateed on written paper is going to hold or they pay for damages if anything happens... Sourcing a FS-DE Block atleast here in Spain is hard ass hell plus junk yards don't sell only blocks these fuckers will sell you the entire engine, head etc and will not be cheap plus after i need to pay the machine shop to hone the block, i mean i'm open to all solutions i know i can get a cheap block from someone in here but again shipping and custom fees will be insane. I know i have lot of money invested in the car but i have a business to run i don't have the same amount of cash i had back in the states. The machine shop told me they can perfect make a sleeve to the cylinder by just boring just a bit of the block in order for me to use either standard size or 20 over pistons. I mean i don't know anything about sleaving a block but i've heard if you sleeve a block you will have the change to make more power and to hold lot more. I saw TBK Performance putthing Sleeves on some MS3 or regular Mazda 3 and the guy maded 700+ HP on it. I mean im not seeking for more power i want to have my car back at the road with same or lil more HP of what it had before and to hold longer like i said i don't race this car, i don't track this car, this will be just for weekend fun. Right right putthing sleeves will be lot cheaper in my particular case what do you really think about putting them in this engine.. Thanks in advance..

 

[LordWorm]

`Thanks for the advice but in this particular case Sleeving the block is cheaper than getting a new block, they are charging me 50 Euros for each cylinder guarateed on written paper is going to hold or they pay for damages if anything happens... Sourcing a FS-DE Block atleast here in Spain is hard ass hell plus junk yards don't sell only blocks these fuckers will sell you the entire engine, head etc and will not be cheap plus after i need to pay the machine shop to hone the block, i mean i'm open to all solutions i know i can get a cheap block from someone in here but again shipping and custom fees will be insane. I know i have lot of money invested in the car but i have a business to run i don't have the same amount of cash i had back in the states. The machine shop told me they can perfect make a sleeve to the cylinder by just boring just a bit of the block in order for me to use either standard size or 20 over pistons. I mean i don't know anything about sleaving a block but i've heard if you sleeve a block you will have the change to make more power and to hold lot more. I saw TBK Performance putthing Sleeves on some MS3 or regular Mazda 3 and the guy maded 700+ HP on it. I mean im not seeking for more power i want to have my car back at the road with same or lil more HP of what it had before and to hold longer like i said i don't race this car, i don't track this car, this will be just for weekend fun. Right right putthing sleeves will be lot cheaper in my particular case what do you really think about putting them in this engine.. Thanks in advance..

50 euros...they certainly are not doing it properly. The amount of machining alone...

Plus its nearly guarenteed to compromise the cooling system. The mazda 3 block is alloy open deck - totally different kettle of fish.

Dude.

BUY ANOTHER BLOCK

and then, dial the power down to something reasonably...

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Lordworm is right again. They can't possibly sleeve it properly for fifty euros a hole. The reason why tbk was sleeving all the Mazda 3 blocks is because they're open deck (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) but for the FS I agree here still, put a new stock block in it. Since this car is apparently a dyno queen, I need to ask what is your horsepower goal? I think you're being unreasonable and just wanting to put down a big number. My turbo is slightly larger than yours and I've cranked it up to 32psi before on race gas. Guess what?it wasn't fun! Besides grenading my tranny at the top of 4th gear, the car was almost scary. It was wheelspin city, and I run some good ass BFG's I'd hate to see what your "nankangs" are like. I ended up dialing it back down to about 26psi for fun and 18 for daily driving. Trust me man, I've been there and it is MORE FUN to dial it down a bit and KNOW it will hold vs running at the limit of man and machine.