Seriously, SEARCH. Even Google...the MS3 is FAMOUS for smoking turbo's when you have a DP. As for your warranty, return to stock and continue your litigation, gonna cost you more than fixing it yourself, but go for it. You have mods so you are SOL, however it is illegal for them to flag your entire warranty, they can only decline to fix the turbo or replace the turbo, which is smoking because your DP btw...but it's not caused by the DP, if that makes sense. The stock DP provides more pressure for the seal to counter the pressure from the oil-side, when you remove this pressure, or reduce it, the oil blows past the seals. The true problem is too much pressure on the oil-side, but your DP creates the symptom of smoking...crappy situation.
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Dealer Denying Smoking Turbo Repair
- Thread starter corollachic83
- Start date
Seriously, SEARCH. Even Google...the MS3 is FAMOUS for smoking turbo's when you have a DP. As for your warranty, return to stock and continue your litigation, gonna cost you more than fixing it yourself, but go for it. You have mods so you are SOL, however it is illegal for them to flag your entire warranty, they can only decline to fix the turbo or replace the turbo, which is smoking because your DP btw...but it's not caused by the DP, if that makes sense. The stock DP provides more pressure for the seal to counter the pressure from the oil-side, when you remove this pressure, or reduce it, the oil blows past the seals. The true problem is too much pressure on the oil-side, but your DP creates the symptom of smoking...crappy situation.
LovinMyMS3
Banned
Just my opinion, but it clearly sounds that Mazda was justified in denying your claim. Good luck with the BBB on this one... I think the odds are certainly against you.
You seem to side with dealerships a lot, twice in this thread alone.
You seem to side with dealerships a lot, twice in this thread alone.
It has nothing to do with dealerships at all... I just find it strange that people mod the hell out of their cars, then cry and whine when the dealers refuse to repair them. That said, if this guy had a broken radio, a blown power window motor, etc., I would be the first guy to say that is BS and that he/she should fight it to the nth degree. That is not the case here. I have modded cars in the past. One was particularly problematic. When Infiniti refused to work on it, I understood. It was my choice to mod the car and therefore my responsibility if something went wrong.
I side with the person / persons who seem to be correct. I don't care if it is the dealer or the buyer.....
....or wait... Maybe I work for a dealership. Yeah... that must be it.
"Aftermarket modifications on vehicle - no powertrain warranty."
i have aftermarket oil, gasoline, windshield washer fluid, and tires in/on my car....should I be worried.
yes the dp can be correlated to the smoking turbo, sorry but they have a leg to stand on. Now if they said your swaybars, or boost gauge caused it. then you have a case. I s*** you not those are actual arguements from a local dealership
i have aftermarket oil, gasoline, windshield washer fluid, and tires in/on my car....should I be worried.
yes the dp can be correlated to the smoking turbo, sorry but they have a leg to stand on. Now if they said your swaybars, or boost gauge caused it. then you have a case. I s*** you not those are actual arguements from a local dealership
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It has nothing to do with dealerships at all... I just find it strange that people mod the hell out of their cars, then cry and whine when the dealers refuse to repair them. That said, if this guy had a broken radio, a blown power window motor, etc., I would be the first guy to say that is BS and that he/she should fight it to the nth degree. That is not the case here. I have modded cars in the past. One was particularly problematic. When Infiniti refused to work on it, I understood. It was my choice to mod the car and therefore my responsibility if something went wrong.
I side with the person / persons who seem to be correct. I don't care if it is the dealer or the buyer.....
....or wait... Maybe I work for a dealership. Yeah... that must be it.
He had a downpipe and a bpv. I wouldn't consider that "modded the hell out of . . ."
Frankly it doesn't even matter. The point is you shouldn't lose your warranty unless the part caused the problem. Just as the MM states. This was a tight situation though. The DP / smoke go hand in hand. Let this be a lesson to avoid dealerships when modded !
"Aftermarket modifications on vehicle - no powertrain warranty."
i have aftermarket oil, gasoline, windshield washer fluid, and tires in/on my car....should I be worried
Ha... too funny... Clearly you should not be. Seriously though, I am still shocked at the lack of responsibility I have seen with people who mod cars. (And let me say that applies to many others besides Mazda owners.) To those of you who mod taking ownership of any problems -- I say Bravo. To the others I simply say, if you aren't prepared to take the risks --- Don't do it. Otherwise, don't complain if you get burnt.
corollachic83
Member
Has anyone tried to have a company rebuild the turbo using beefer seals? A less expensive possibilty? I know of a couple of company's in the area that have a good reputation on rebuilds.
Has anyone tried to have a company rebuild the turbo using beefer seals? A less expensive possibilty? I know of a couple of company's in the area that have a good reputation on rebuilds.
bnr is doing something i know that
LovinMyMS3
Banned
That is not the case here.
How is it not? In what way has the dealership proven that it caused the problem? People who say "If you mod it you shouldn't have a warranty" are the problem.
The dealership itself didn't have to prove it. The Mazdaspeed community proved it for them when PTP released their "engineering analysis" of their smoking turbo fix. It clearly states that the reduced backpressure from a downpipe directly causes oil blow-by.How is it not? In what way has the dealership proven that it caused the problem? People who say "If you mod it you shouldn't have a warranty" are the problem.
The dealership itself didn't have to prove it. The Mazdaspeed community proved it for them when PTP released their "engineering analysis" of their smoking turbo fix. It clearly states that the reduced backpressure from a downpipe directly causes oil blow-by.
uhh PTP's bandaid doesnt cure all, and the dealership doesnt have to prove it, Mazda does. And you have to provide facts from a reputable lab or testing facility, not some small time vendor
No, it doesn't cure all... my tailpipe has started smoking at idle (mostly when facing downhill(nervous)) and I am 100% stock... which is why I'm reading threads on oil smoke today.uhh PTP's bandaid doesnt cure all, and the dealership doesnt have to prove it, Mazda does. And you have to provide facts from a reputable lab or testing facility, not some small time vendor
However, in the case of the original poster's car... she modified it before showing any signs of smoking with a modification known to cause smoking.
Many of you in this thread have very idealized opinions of the Magnusson Moss Act. Sure, they are supposed to do all this testing and show proof but really, there is no way to enforce it. You can't call the police to come enforce it. If she were to take this to court, she'd lose, because again, her modifications caused it. You can say all day that I have no proof but you know damn well that her modifications caused it and if it came down to research and a civil suit jury, she's gonna lose because MazdaUSA has far more technical resources to prove it than she has to disprove it.
No, it doesn't cure all... my tailpipe has started smoking at idle (mostly when facing downhill(nervous)) and I am 100% stock... which is why I'm reading threads on oil smoke today.
However, in the case of the original poster's car... she modified it before showing any signs of smoking with a modification known to cause smoking.
Many of you in this thread have very idealized opinions of the Magnusson Moss Act. Sure, they are supposed to do all this testing and show proof but really, there is no way to enforce it. You can't call the police to come enforce it. If she were to take this to court, she'd lose, because again, her modifications caused it. You can say all day that I have no proof but you know damn well that her modifications caused it and if it came down to research and a civil suit jury, she's gonna lose because MazdaUSA has far more technical resources to prove it than she has to disprove it.
then why has mazda started putting 5w40 in all the smoking turbo cars? i was at my dealership last week, and the service rep was seeing 1-4 cx7s PER DAY with smoking turbos, theyre not modded.....the dealers have to prove it beyond doubt, "because I said so" doesnt work in the legal system.
FYI:
Hello all.
There is a big problem with the turbochargers on the MS3/6/cx7. I have taken apart a bunch of them and this is what I find...
The turbo is a KKK K04. The smoking problem is b/c of a combination of several things.
- weak crank case ventilation
- too much oil pressure
- not enough backpressure to equilize crank case pressure
- improper tolerances in turbocahrger
We all know mazdas fixes. CCV update, synthetic oil change, oil restriction, and also their turbo replacement. All of which is not going to solve their issues 100%.
I take apart these turbochargers and I see something right off the bat that is waaaay out of wack. The compressor seal is nearly .012"! This tolerance is supposed to be .0025-.003".
What is happening is the boost from the compressor housing is blowing into the bearing housing through that gap and causing the oil to not flow properly to the oil pan. The oil backs up and the level rises in the bearing housing of the turbocharger until it leaks through the turbine seal which is on the exhaust side that has a gap of .010". When it seaps through that gap, it enters the exhaust system causing your smoking...
I have a fix for the issue and it requires a build up of the turbocharger. It has a total seal on the compressor side so no boost enters the crank case! Not to mension a reliability increase and performance increase.
Bryan@BNR
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You keep talking about the legal system as if it even matters. 99.9% of the time, a person will NOT take it to court because they have doubts about their ability to win or because the cost of litigation is prohibitive.then why has mazda started putting 5w40 in all the smoking turbo cars? i was at my dealership last week, and the service rep was seeing 1-4 cx7s PER DAY with smoking turbos, theyre not modded.....the dealers have to prove it beyond doubt, "because I said so" doesnt work in the legal system
You keep talking about the legal system as if it even matters. 99.9% of the time, a person will NOT take it to court because they have doubts about their ability to win or because the cost of litigation is prohibitive.
yes because your the one talking about bending over and letting the dealers (upbum). your making statements about something with 0 proof, just going by earsay. Mazda is obviously aware that there is in fact a problem, but are doing whatever they can to reduce the number of cars effected, including voiding warranties for no reason.
Now, the OP was wrong in taking the car to the dealer modded. I was threatened with a voided warranty for my dashawk. A discussion that will remain private ensued and i still have it, but i went there with my intake and tune removed. Others have had similar cases for boost gauges, shifter weights etc. You need to push back and not let the dealer roll over you (staying civil obviously).
What you are suggesting is fraud and is also illegal. Do you think if she had reversed her mods and then ended up in court, they wouldn't find out? I'm not urging anybody to "take it up the bum". I'm saying to honor the contracts you signed when you bought the car. Instead, you're suggesting people cheat MazdaUSA. Nice ethic.yes because your the one talking about bending over and letting the dealers (upbum). your making statements about something with 0 proof, just going by earsay. Mazda is obviously aware that there is in fact a problem, but are doing whatever they can to reduce the number of cars effected, including voiding warranties for no reason.
Now, the OP was wrong in taking the car to the dealer modded. I was threatened with a voided warranty for my dashawk. A discussion that will remain private ensued and i still have it, but i went there with my intake and tune removed. Others have had similar cases for boost gauges, shifter weights etc. You need to push back and not let the dealer roll over you (staying civil obviously).
What you are suggesting is fraud and is also illegal. Do you think if she had reversed her mods and then ended up in court, they wouldn't find out? I'm not urging anybody to "take it up the bum". I'm saying to honor the contracts you signed when you bought the car. Instead, you're suggesting people cheat MazdaUSA. Nice ethic.
no im saying people shouldnt bend over because mazda made an inferior product. they should man the **** up and fix their mistake, read the engineering code of ethics. prove to me how an intake can blow a motor, or a boost gauge can cause a smoking turbo. you sound like you work for mazda
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Intakes blow motors all the time. So many bad things can happen on a MAF based car from an intake change it's not even funny.no im saying people shouldnt bend over because mazda made an inferior product. they should man the **** up and fix their mistake, read the engineering code of ethics. prove to me how an intake can blow a motor, or a boost gauge can cause a smoking turbo. you sound like you work for mazda
I totally agree that if they refuse coverage on your stereo because you have an intake, that you should NOT allow them to get away with it... I just think that in the OPs case, she did something that is known to lead to a problem and now she's trying to have somebody else foot the bill.
HOWEVER, I highly doubt the turbo is the problem at all anyway. I think, like mazda and PTP, it's a PCV issue causing too much oil pressure around the turbo's seals. Maybe you hadn't yet seen this? (nevermind... mazdas247 prevents linking to another site... how... low rent)
Intakes blow motors all the time. So many bad things can happen on a MAF based car from an intake change it's not even funny.
I totally agree that if they refuse coverage on your stereo because you have an intake, that you should NOT allow them to get away with it... I just think that in the OPs case, she did something that is known to lead to a problem and now she's trying to have somebody else foot the bill.
HOWEVER, I highly doubt the turbo is the problem at all anyway. I think, like mazda and PTP, it's a PCV issue causing too much oil pressure around the turbo's seals. Maybe you hadn't yet seen this? (nevermind... mazdas247 prevents linking to another site... how... low rent)
yea i know i posted up on MSF on that thread a few days ago, take a look at my post.
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
Well, to the OP, not being a dick at all, but the DP did it. If I were you and had the foresight to do so, I'd take the BPV off and put it back to stock, save for any Mazdaspeed parts on it, and take it in for repair.
8.5MS3 has done a lot of legwork on this topic and so have I. The tolerances in the original turbos (rev. A) were quite bad, and allowed oil to creep past the seals and enter the exhaust tract. They've since beefed up the seals on the newer (replacement) turbos and it seems to fix the issue. The PCV is being investigated, but right now there hasn't been any development in terms of a definite repair or TSB for that. My local dealer (which supplied me with all the info on the initial TSB or MTOL-5505) sees more CX-7s than anything, but the 5w-40 fix is temporary. It's gotten to the point they just replace the turbos now because the issue is so common. I've been through 2 turbos already, one for smoke, the other for a bearing failure.
Back to the OP, I suggest you buy a different turbo, such as the BNR replacement, PTP SST, or a GT3071 and be done with it. Get a conservative tune and enjoy your car. Or, you sell it. The catted DP just makes the known issue more noticeable.
Dealers are shady as hell now, especially with any MS vehicle, but don't give them any leverage against you. Hopefully you learn something from this experience and don't ever have an issue like this again.
8.5MS3 has done a lot of legwork on this topic and so have I. The tolerances in the original turbos (rev. A) were quite bad, and allowed oil to creep past the seals and enter the exhaust tract. They've since beefed up the seals on the newer (replacement) turbos and it seems to fix the issue. The PCV is being investigated, but right now there hasn't been any development in terms of a definite repair or TSB for that. My local dealer (which supplied me with all the info on the initial TSB or MTOL-5505) sees more CX-7s than anything, but the 5w-40 fix is temporary. It's gotten to the point they just replace the turbos now because the issue is so common. I've been through 2 turbos already, one for smoke, the other for a bearing failure.
Back to the OP, I suggest you buy a different turbo, such as the BNR replacement, PTP SST, or a GT3071 and be done with it. Get a conservative tune and enjoy your car. Or, you sell it. The catted DP just makes the known issue more noticeable.
Dealers are shady as hell now, especially with any MS vehicle, but don't give them any leverage against you. Hopefully you learn something from this experience and don't ever have an issue like this again.
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