blowing your motor questions

[8.5MS3]

Target STI. not to stir the pot or add fuel to the fire but check out NASIOC, they have a dedicated blown engine thread just like we do. same with evo's. guys are blowing rex's n STi's at as low as 150 miles. every community has blown engines, thats what you get when some (not all) just bolt up every performance part and think they can forget about engine management/monitoring. increasing the output of a motor will always decrease reliability.

This engine won several awards. just because there are tsb's doesnt mean its a bad engine. it just may be tuned near the limit stock, and we try and push a bit too far. how many companies have tried DI + 9.5:1 compression + 16psi boost out of the factory? This motor is new to everyone, including the aftermarket. Things take time.

The reason there are blown engine threads is because a "my motor is good thread" would die in days. Companies are abandoning the platform because certain people (not all) in this community demand things immediately have no patience, while the rest of us sit quietly and wait. Its a bad feeling to be a manufacturer and have people bashing your parts left and right because its not here "now", or its rushed into market before all the bugs are worked out just to shut people up.

To the OP: Its a fun car to drive and has tons of power out of the box. I would suggest keep it stock until your butt dyno gets used to it, then mod slowly, seeing how the car reacts to each part, rather than slap everything on in one shot. For me personally, an intake added 18whp, and a custom tune another 40 whp. car is plenty fast. anything more than 300whp and your getting a slimmer margin of safety than i would personally like to see.

 

[SPEEDYONE]

8.5

its hard to deny the fact that there is almost a new motor popped every week.

This forum may never see it, but they are happening more then you imagine.

 

[8.5MS3]

8.5

its hard to deny the fact that there is almost a new motor popped every week.

This forum may never see it, but they are happening more then you imagine.

yes but how many people that have ms3/ms6 are actually on the forums? a few were lightly bolted i wont argue that, but the majority do have lots of modifications. MSF has several threads regarding possible causes. dont forget people's ego's come into the equation. how many people are going to admit "yea i mis-shifted and revved the motor to 8 grand....." or the like. much easier to blame others. not to say there is not a problem, just that this platform may not be capable of an additional 100-150 whp without a full rebuild...

hell ill admit my car started running like s*** after i got a custom tune. i have a thread of that issue on 2 forums. turned out it was my own dumbass overoiling my filter and killing my MAF.

 

[Jacobra]

Seriously man. The mzr isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. If you put a bunch of mods on your car and have a lead foot you are going to blow the motor. That will happen with any car. Just throw on a couple bolt-ons and don't be a Boost-Slut. You can go for big power when it's no longer your DD.

 

[eg6motion]

how is this trolling if its true?

Yes, they all pop motors and if you buy a MS3 you are rolling the dice....
Give me a break, it's TROLLING. His only post was to piss on the MS3. The actual truth would be that more morons and kids drive their MS3's like it's a beater rental car, pushing it every day and modding it without any regards to warranty...then their car blows a motor and they whine like babies. I would be willing to guess that the true MS3 motor failure rate (for stock engines that were not abused by idiots) is probably less than 1% of vehicles. It's probably very similar to every other car out there... even Toyota Camery's may have an engine fail occasionally, but you don't see some asshat telling a potential buyer that their purchase will be "rolling the dice".

 

[8.5MS3]

Dont bother wasting your breath....6 months down the road he'll be on the blown threads...

major reason why people probably blow stock is that this is their first turbo car or first stick shift....guys think they can be cruising around in 6th at 45 and go WOT rather than downshift....yea 16psi at 2k rpm will cause engine damage. driver error, not the car's. or they think its a honda and rev it to 7 grand because thats what they did when they had vtak...

dont drive the car like a douche and you'll be fine

 

[SwampAss]

Everyone always remembers the motors that pop when someone posts. Keep in mind this forum and forums like it, have 1000s or so active MS3 members with no engine issues.

Also take into account that this engine is also in the Speed6 and CX7. That's tens of 1000s of DISI turbo motors in cars with no engine problems.
Engines are machines. I don't care how reliable a machine is, there will always be a few that have issues. If you are majorly concerned with whether or not an engine is going to blow up, stick to riding a bicycle. Chances are, you'll spend your time worrying about chain failure or steering neck bearings.

I have 45000 miles on my car and have pushed it north of 18psi. It's better than it was new.

 

[djthom]

incorrectly tuned when mods are in place is the issue. Map clamps, boost clamps and such were the early culprits. People turning up boost without monitoring afrs etc. All motors have weak spots too. and as time goes on and people break stuff we find the weak points. Tuning a car takes a good look at all the data and corrects the weak points. sometimes if more power is desired, mechanical upgrades are required also. i think the motor in general is fine. I have no warped heads, overheating, oil smoke. the clutch plate is not warped and still grabs well. I still have alot to learn about this car and am getting some good help from folks here. but to say these are prone to throw rods and melt pistons is just not true. I would appreciate if you would not talk out your behind sir.

you should listen to people who have more knowledge about this car than you do...its how you learn. its ok to be skeptical about info you see on the forums but to ignore anything that isn't in-line with what you want to believe is not going to help...

you yourself said you are a noob when it comes to these cars, so let me help you out. the current record holders for the most power out of both speed3 and speed6 were untuned and simply using a map clamp/bcd and a manual boost controller. i would venture to say that more people have popped using some form of ecu tuning than untuned.

if these engines are not prone to failure, then why are there "blown engine resource threads" more than a few pages long. maybe not on this forum but on others. if these engines were so stout, then why havent more companies hopped on board making parts? 3 years after the engine's inception, we have one proven race team starting to take a good look at us, DCR. if these engines were not prone to destruction, why would we even be having this conversation?

do the math. take the number of blown DISI MZR motors + the amount of recalls issued for factory defficiencies + the amount of TSB's concerning major parts of the car (ie high pressure fuel pump, turbo seals, clutch, pcv system etc)= not that great of an engine.

dont get me wrong, i love my car. but to think that the engine is stout, mod friendly, or extremely reliable is just naive. i bought my car brand new in 06, and have been on the forums since then. i have read just about every thread concerning these issues. perhaps you should go back and read some more of the success and failure threads before you tell me not to speak out of my ass.

+1

Seriously man. The mzr isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. If you put a bunch of mods on your car and have a lead foot you are going to blow the motor. That will happen with any car. Just throw on a couple bolt-ons and don't be a Boost-Slut. You can go for big power when it's no longer your DD.

this is true and not true...

i agree the mzr is a great motor but adding a turbo that spools so early to it pushes it close to the max of its potential right out the factory b/c of all that low end torque.

Yes, they all pop motors and if you buy a MS3 you are rolling the dice....
Give me a break, it's TROLLING. His only post was to piss on the MS3. The actual truth would be that more morons and kids drive their MS3's like it's a beater rental car, pushing it every day and modding it without any regards to warranty...then their car blows a motor and they whine like babies. I would be willing to guess that the true MS3 motor failure rate (for stock engines that were not abused by idiots) is probably less than 1% of vehicles. It's probably very similar to every other car out there... even Toyota Camery's may have an engine fail occasionally, but you don't see some asshat telling a potential buyer that their purchase will be "rolling the dice".

first things first...you "keep off the grass" sign looks great and should keep those pesky kids off your lawn.

second...i disagree with your assumption that the failure rate is similar to every other car out there.

lastly...WARGLBARBL!!!!

 

[Jacobra]

When it comes down to it, 95% of the engine failures are either the result of careless modding or poor driving techniques. Or, most commonly it is a combination of both because you have the same mentality as an ignorant Honda driver.

 

[8.5MS3]

Look at it from a stock point of view. the motor is amazing for what it is. Mazda designed it for 265/280. if the motor blows when you up it to say 325/360 at the wheels, its not Mazda's fault. you simply exceeded the capabilities (factor of safety) that mazda designed the engine for. if the f/s was say 20%, anything more than 318/336 at the CRANK is beyond its design...

that doesnt make it a bad engine, its just doesnt have much potential beyond stock, unless you do a full forged rebuild.

 

[djthom]

When it comes down to it, 95% of the engine failures are either the result of careless modding or poor driving techniques. Or, most commonly it is a combination of both because you have the same mentality as an ignorant Honda driver.

why does driving a Honda = ignorant?

Look at it from a stock point of view. the motor is amazing for what it is. Mazda designed it for 265/280. if the motor blows when you up it to say 325/360 at the wheels, its not Mazda's fault. you simply exceeded the capabilities (factor of safety) that mazda designed the engine for. if the f/s was say 20%, anything more than 318/336 at the CRANK is beyond its design...

that doesnt make it a bad engine, its just doesnt have much potential beyond stock, unless you do a full forged rebuild.

agreed

just one thing...aren't the 265/280 numbers at the crank?

 

[8.5MS3]

why does driving a Honda = ignorant?





agreed

just one thing...aren't the 265/280 numbers at the crank?

yes they are.

w/o a tune my car put down 228whp/262wtq. after the tune im sitting at 265whp/315wtq. so assuming constant drivetrain losses. at the crank i am now producing 302hp/333tq. tires light up on demand in 1st and 2nd. thats enough power for me now....suspension & fat tires are where the money's going next

 

[Jacobra]

why does driving a Honda = ignorant?
/QUOTE]
because honda drivers seem think its a good idea to put a gt40r on a b-series and blow it up a couple weeks later.

 

[GoFast]

why does driving a Honda = ignorant?

because honda drivers seem think its a good idea to put a gt40r on a b-series and blow it up a couple weeks later.

There are dumbasses in every group so let's keep this discussion based on facts instead of silly stereotypes.

 

[Sp33dFr33k]

I've actually seen a few different articles rating the engine in top 10 of all time.

 

[Jacobra]

fair enough

however im just trying to illustrate that the reason people blow motors is that they put excessive mods on a car. that alone if they are installed well will not damage a motor to severely but when some one decides that they have to show off and race everything then yes they will destroy the engine.

 

[djthom]

fair enough

however im just trying to illustrate that the reason people blow motors is that they put excessive mods on a car. that alone if they are installed well will not damage a motor to severely but when some one decides that they have to show off and race everything then yes they will destroy the engine.

just stop...(braindead

 

[8.5MS3]

fair enough

however im just trying to illustrate that the reason people blow motors is that they put excessive mods on a car. that alone if they are installed well will not damage a motor to severely but when some one decides that they have to show off and race everything then yes they will destroy the engine.

by your logic if i strap on a turbo from a mack truck and run 50psi boost, as long as i tq the bolts down right and everything is connected properly i should be fine....

anyone else notice he repeats what i post??

 

[Jacobra]

never mind. this is turning into a hate thread and the question was answered 2 pages ago.

 

[ericrapp]

I will apologise for my last statement. In my noob comments i mentioned about talking out the behind. I am very prideful of my cars. Sorry to help turn this thread into who knows what. And a personal apology to Target STI. I hope you will accept it sir.