How does MS3's clutch point compare to that of other vehicles?

[Sergius64]

Was planning to buy a MS3 next week and finally got one of my friends to teach me stick yesterday... Lets just say that WV Gti with that DSG Automatic seems much more attractive all of the sudden.

My friends tell me that the car I practiced on (an older Subbie WRX) has a very small clutch point so thats why its harder to learn stick on it. But I would think that MS3 would have a very similar sized clutch point since they're both Japanese entry level sports cars.

So, any of you guys driven both? How do the clutch points compare? Did any of you get an MS3 as your first manual and how was the learning experience? Any advice? Obviously I had the most trouble starting from a stop, especially on a hill. The hand-brake hill start I couldn't get at all (bang). The rest I could, but with periodic stalling and I just don't see myself getting on a road in a manual car at this point. I'll be annoying everyone but starting super slow from stops, and periodic stalling.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

Trying to learn stick shift on this car is not what i'd recommend.

The engage point is typically closer to the floor, but between judging your torque (on or off boost) and knowing when to shift, not to mention 1st and 2nd gear are so damn short, you may get frustrated easily with the car.

 

[clos561]

pretty much learned stick on this car. the engagement on this car is about 1/3 released and u feel it kick a bit. its probably a easier car to learn in since the clutch is so soft

 

[DaleNixon]

I learned stick on this car. It was pretty difficult, but I didn't know it. When I drove my wife's Civic Si months later, it was ridiculous how easy it was to get going and shift.

After about a week or two I was comfortable in traffic in the MS3.

 

[Peter B]

I had a about 2 hours of lessons on my budy's passat. That car was much easier to and smoother then the MS3.

After that it was trial by fire. Not the easiest stick to drive. A month or two after my lesson in the passat I had the same friend take my MS3 for a spin in the parking lot. He had trouble just getting the car to move. Stalled it 3 times off the bat and a few more as we cruised around the lot. The clutch on this car it tight. Been driving the MS3 every day since july and my first and second gear changes as well as starts are still jerky at times. Not easy but once you get it going its alot of fun.

Not sure if I would call the MS3 an 'entry level' sports car. The fact that the WRX and MS3 are both similar and both Japanese has little to do with their clutch as well. The clutch it tight for performance reasons. You don't want a sloppy clutch with alot of travel when ur racing.

 

[LukeP]

You drive enough stick cars they all seems the same after a while. The MS3's clutch is a little grabbier than most, but its the throttle tip in lag (drive by wire) that pisses me off more. When you have to jump up a hill from a red light, the tip in lag is the s****. Stalled it once because I have her the beans and swung off the clutch quick, but the engine never reacted to my throttle position in time, so it just died.

My civic would have already been screaming by the time my right foot nudged the pedal!

So either I have to use the handbrake all noob style so I have that extra second to build revs or I have to do some heel toe action to get the motor producing some power, or slip the clutch (which I hate doing) for that moment of delay.

 

[LOL WUT]

When the guy at the mazdaspeed dealer killed my car 2 times trying to pull it around front for me I couldn't help but laugh. I got in expecting it to be a pain in the ass to drive but it wasn't too hard to get used to. My previous car was a supercharged cobalt and besides the cobalt's clutch peddle being a lot softer I didn't think it was that much of a change.

 

[Peter B]

BTW, my first two weeks in this car i drove around like i was 90. It was hell. ...waving people around me everytime i stalled, stalling in intersections and stop lights. I would avoid traffic as much as possible as stop and go was the hardest thing in the world for me. But I got through it and im glad I did cause i love this car!

 

[clos561]

BTW, my first two weeks in this car i drove around like i was 90. It was hell. ...waving people around me everytime i stalled, stalling in intersections and stop lights. I would avoid traffic as much as possible as stop and go was the hardest thing in the world for me. But I got through it and im glad I did cause i love this car!

(chair) lol that would be embarassing

 

[happy and angry]

I wouldn't say it's easier or harder to learn on this car than any other, as it is a brand new skill to learn. It is, however, very unforgiving. The resistence of the clutch pedal isn't linear, for the first 2/3rds of the travel is fairly firm and it gets really light at the bottom. The transition point from firm travel to light travel is right around the friction point, too, and this can make it difficult to get a light touch. I've driven stick since I was 17 and first started driving, have probably logged 200,000 miles on 6 different vehicles (a '99 Civic, an '06 Cobalt, '86 OJ White Bronco, '97 Saturn LS1, '07 Mazda 3, '07 Mazdaspeed3) plus driving friends cars here and there plus a few work trucks out on my uncle's farm, and this car still gives me an unwanted shudder or two, especially when cold, but that just tells me I can get better at controlling the clutch.

The advice I can give you for learning any car is to start it moving under idle throttle a few times from a stop to get used to where the friction point is. Just clutch out slowly until it starts to bite and roll forward without any gas at all, and either hold it or very slowly release the clutch as it starts to roll forward. You'll get it rolling at maybe 3 or 4 mph without any throttle input, and start learning where that friction point is. It's sort of important.

Being able to get to that point and hold it without thinking about it is the key to hill starts, for example. If you're good you can hold onto the brake at a stop light on a hill and when it turns green, come out on the clutch right to the friction point, come off the brake and get lightly on the gas as you feather the clutch out and not roll back much at all. You effectively do the same thing with the hand brake, holding the car in place as you partially engage the clutch so you can release the brake and get rolling.

As a new stick driver there are a lot of skills you should learn, like proper downshifting (rev matching), how to handle hills (both up or down), how to read traffic ahead of you well enough so that you're always in the right gear, how shifting slow can be fast and why shifting fast can be slow. These skills become second nature, after a while, and you can learn them on any car. The clutch and the friction point of any vehicle is really a very small hurdle in learning to drive, because once you learn it you've got it (with minor adjustments) for almost any car you'll ever drive. Might take you a week, no matter the car. The bigger, more important, more difficult things to learn might take you years and thousands of miles. I wouldn't worry about the clutch so much. If driving stick intimidates you or you think you won't be happy driving stick, don't get the car. If you're willing to deal with the early awkwardness, go for it.

 

[jezterr]

it's the grabbiest clutch i've ever driven to the point where i thought there was a problem - turns out my experience with zippy cars is just limited. i'd think someone learning how to drive stick in this would get annoyed pretty quick, though.

 

[Hank3]

I'm going on seven months of owning the car and I still will shift roughly a few times here and there throughout the week. It engages later than any other MT car I've ever driven.

 

[Kain]

This is the advice I give anyone learning to drive stick: go get yourself a beater for <$1,000, no point burning the clutch on a new car prematurely.

 

[UHATEIT]

This clutch on this car doesn't grab as easily as other cars I've drievn before either, It not as crappy as a 350Z clutch, but not as nice as the clutch on my old 91 MR2. That b**** grabbed and pulled forward smoothly, while I always have to give this car some gas off the start so the car wont stall. A lower clutch ngagement point on this car would be great!

On the 350z, there was a way to actually LOWER the engagement point so that it would start to pull at a lower lift off the pedal. It was very simple, just required you to loosen this small piece on the back of the pedal and did a world for comfortability! I will check out the clutch pedal on this car and look if there is any qay to adjust the pedal engagement point on it. I would imagine it would be possible like it was on the 350z, but I havent yet looked.

Has anyone by chance checked out the pedal on the MS3 and seen anyway to adjust it?

 

[ericm]

I've been driving since 1975 and most of my cars have been manuals.

The MS3 clutch isn't the worst I have driven, but it's not the best (the Miata would be the best). The engagement point is kind of narrow, and the feel is not as good as the Miata's. I've driven much worse but that's because I have driven firetrucks and old school buses... and my old Eclipse.

The handbrake start on a hill isn't a "newbie" move, it's the best way to do it.

If the OP isn't comfortable with a manual, the MS3 is probably not the best manual car to drive.

OTOH, VW's DSG is awesome. But you need to know what you are about there, and it wants a handbrake start on a hill too. It's not happy with rolling back. But the handbrake start is easily mastered.

 

[coyfish]

Ive driven a 2002 subaru wrx and I found it easier to drive than my speed.

Some cars are easier than other but sounds to me like you just need to practice. With what I know now and if I were to go back and learn stick I would simply practice letting the clutch touch the engagement point in and out. On a flat surface you can get the car rolling in 1st without touching the gas pedal. You can feel the car "grab" when the clutch his the engagement point and you will roll slightly.

Get used to this and it should make your life easier when you apply gas.

 

[UHATEIT]

when I was mentioning the clutch pedal height adjustment for a Nissan 350Z, here is the diagram of how to do that on that car. I assume that doing something SIMILAR to our car would also be an option. Just required a simply turn/adjustment of a knob on the back of the pedal, who knows, maybe it can be just as easy on our car. Ima check it out later today. Anyways here is the diagram:

 

[DublinDapper]

Wow, I couldn't even imagine trying to learn stick in this car. My Girlfriend hates driving it shes only been drivin stick a year, car scares the poop outta her!

 

[LukeP]

Anyone else notice that the clutch gets less grabby as the car heats up, and then some hard driving makes it more forgiving? I don't mean slipping the clutch or hard launches, just spirited stuff.

 

[Sergius64]

Ive driven a 2002 subaru wrx and I found it easier to drive than my speed.

Some cars are easier than other but sounds to me like you just need to practice. With what I know now and if I were to go back and learn stick I would simply practice letting the clutch touch the engagement point in and out. On a flat surface you can get the car rolling in 1st without touching the gas pedal. You can feel the car "grab" when the clutch his the engagement point and you will roll slightly.

Get used to this and it should make your life easier when you apply gas.

Yeah, well I was able to do that most of the time. Just if I tried to go too quick (still much slower then I would be expected to on the street), it would stall. And on a little hill I was still stalling 1 out of 3 times. So I'm just not sure about buying it at this point because I don't think I could get it home safely.

Oh well, at least out of that 1.5 hour session we only smelled the transmission once, so I know I wasn't screwing up TOO badly.

The reason I was planning to buy a MS3 in the first place is cause I have a Mazda3 and I LOVE it. So ever since they came out with a Mazdaspeed version I wanted it. Of course I wasn't financially ready to switch until now and the ugly ass 2010 version is looming on the horizon, so thats why I've been planning to buy it so quick. If I don't buy a MS3 I'll probably just sit on my Mazda, I've got no real reason to buy any other new car.