MS3 Sport ready for audio upgrade

[CHICO2003]

As far as getting a TBE goes...

From the book of greener grass... I'm coming from an MSP w a Vibrant TBE. I choose that one because it was supposedly the least loud one out there. Even with the silencer the thing was still a beast. I mean... it sounded good, dont' get me wrong. None of that fart can crap... but it was STILL too loud. I make a lot of calls while driving and nobody could hear s***!

so my exhaust is gonna stay stock... but that leads me to my other point. Why do people even mess with these cars? I mean, how much power do you really need anyway? I can see minor/easy/cheap mods like a CAI and what not but I've heard of people going all out... it's just crazy. Maybe I haven't been bit by the bug yet. IDK What I do know is...I only did those types of mods on the MSP cuz it was too dang slow in stock form. Even WITH all the crap I did... it's STILL not as quick as the stock MS3 so... needless to say, I'm pretty happy with its performance.

just not so much with regards to the audio...

So yeah... I'm gonna take everyone's advice and get some new components for up front and speakers for the rear. I ordered some shifter bushings from SU and understand the center console needs to come out in order to install them... so I'm just gonna tackle that, the speakers, the sub and hardwiring my new Garmin all at once. Hopefully these upgrades will suffice... Now I just gotta decide on the types of speakers. I still have no clue on how I'm gonna handle the sub but I'll at least wire it up so that it's ready to rock once I do.

Thanks again

 

[ecniemann]

Ummmmm... Sorry but it does. Run the same power at the same volume level to a speaker with low power ratings and one with high power ratings, the speaker with the lower ratings will be louder. Why do you think DaleNixons infinity's wouldn't get that loud??? Other variable that would affect that is the impedence of the speaker.. considering 4ohm is the norm, I doubt they were 8 ohm speakers which would be cause them to not be as loud. If they were 2 ohm, they would be louder.. but would be hard on the HU, say like over heat.

Sensitivity, in db, refers to how loud a given speaker will play with a given input. Ie: higher sensitivity = louder speaker relative to same given input. This is a function of what the speaker is made of, etc., but as far as I know, given wattage ratings have nothing to do with the "loudness" of a speaker. Efficient speakers play louder, plain and simple. A 200 W max speaker will not necessarily be louder or softer than say a 10 W max speaker if the sensitivity of the speaker and input level of the source is the same, if the speaker is the same relative size, etc.

 

[TheRealDefman]

Ummmmm... Sorry but it does. Run the same power at the same volume level to a speaker with low power ratings and one with high power ratings, the speaker with the lower ratings will be louder. Why do you think DaleNixons infinity's wouldn't get that loud??? Other variable that would affect that is the impedence of the speaker.. considering 4ohm is the norm, I doubt they were 8 ohm speakers which would be cause them to not be as loud. If they were 2 ohm, they would be louder.. but would be hard on the HU, say like over heat.

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

 

[squidmotion]

weighing my options on this topic as well...

i miss the system i had in my xterra...


the exhaust sounds better, though..

 

[DaleNixon]

Blaaaargh I am a zombie!

 

[ecniemann]

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

A few decibels is very significant in audio, it is not a linear scale, more logarithmic. A 2 db increase is equivalent to basically double the perceived volume level.

 

[TheRealDefman]

A few decibels is very significant in audio, it is not a linear scale, more logarithmic. A 2 db increase is equivalent to basically double the perceived volume level.

Yeah, I know. Actually roughly 10 db is audibly twice as loud, so 2 db really isn't that much. Louder? Yes. Noticeably louder? Barely.
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

Never-the-less, we agree on the original point that power rating has nothing to do with volume.... *AND* Gianna is something else, isn't she?

 

[DaleNixon]

Gianna is something else, isn't she?

I'd buy that for a dollar.

 

[CHICO2003]

...As for a sub, the stock HU does cut out some of the lower frequencies to be friendly to the stock speakers.. this made my sub sound not so great and couldn't really get any of the low bass hits using a LOC spliced in to the back speakers. What I did eventually do is buy the MTX RE-Q. Use that instead of a LOC to connect the amp. It's designed to restore some of the bass that some stock HU's remove, that little doodad made a huge difference in the bass quality on my sub. Alot of people are happy using just a LOC, but trust me, MUCH better with the RE-Q. If you're an absolute audiophile, look in to the JL Cleansweep...

Damn... now I'm even more confused than ever! (but it's all good! I actually didn't even know such products existed)

So now I have yet another choice to make... LOC, MTX RE-Q or JL Cleansweep. I just did a ton of research/looking up and didn't really find anything relevant. Does anyone know if it would be a waste to get either the MTX or JL for the MS3 Sport?

 

[CHICO2003]

I found the REQ for $60 online so the price difference between a LOC is so slim... I'm pretty much ruling that one out. It seems the REQ merely creates a cleaner signal for your sub while the cleansweep, in addition to doing that, also cleans up the sound going to your speakers. Is this accurate? If so, (I found the Cleansweep for $150) perhaps it's worth the extra $90

 

[ecniemann]

I found the REQ for $60 online so the price difference between a LOC is so slim... I'm pretty much ruling that one out. It seems the REQ merely creates a cleaner signal for your sub while the cleansweep, in addition to doing that, also cleans up the sound going to your speakers. Is this accurate? If so, (I found the Cleansweep for $150) perhaps it's worth the extra $90

If I had not replaced the HU, I would have gotten a CleanSweep.

 

[mordant80]

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

Alright, smartass.. the stock speakers in the sport are 4 ohm.. period. (just looked at the ones that came out of my sport) The stock speakers in the GT with the bose system are 2 ohm. Only thing else I really have to say is go **** yourself with your e-cock waving attitude, you don't have a clue how old I am or what my background is. Maybe do an experiment with some speakers with different power handling capibilities first hand, see what ya come up with, you might be surprised what you find out.

ALSO.. as for the underpowering a speaker statement you made earlier.... Actually yea it can hurt a speaker.

Straight from crutchfields Q&A:
Q: How does a speaker's power handling relate to the power output of a receiver or an amplifier?
A: Let's limit our discussion to RMS (continuous) power, because whether we're talking about power handling or power rating, the RMS number is always more significant than the peak number. You should pick an amplifier whose power rating is in the upper end of your speaker's power range. For example, if a speaker is rated to handle up to 35 watts of RMS power, it will perform closer to optimum as your power source approaches delivery of 35 watts. It's better to overpower a speaker than to underpower it — the distortion caused when you push a low-powered amp to its limit is much more likely to harm a speaker than too much power.


Final thought.. If your gonna keep the stock HU and use it to power the door speakers, YES IT ABSOLUTELY IS in your best interest to shop for speakers with lower power handling. If you're gonna replace the HU or use an amp to power things.. go wild.

 

[TheRealDefman]

Only thing else I really have to say is go **** yourself with your e-cock waving attitude, you don't have a clue how old I am or what my background is. Maybe do an experiment with some speakers with different power handling capibilities first hand, see what ya come up with, you might be surprised what you find out.

(Chortle) The more you talk the more you reveal just how little you know.... But please, continue to pontificate on your vast knowledge of car audio and electronics. It's very entertaining to those of us who actually have it!

ALSO.. as for the underpowering a speaker statement you made earlier.... Actually yea it can hurt a speaker.

Straight from crutchfields Q&A:
Q: How does a speaker's power handling relate to the power output of a receiver or an amplifier?
A: Let's limit our discussion to RMS (continuous) power, because whether we're talking about power handling or power rating, the RMS number is always more significant than the peak number. You should pick an amplifier whose power rating is in the upper end of your speaker's power range. For example, if a speaker is rated to handle up to 35 watts of RMS power, it will perform closer to optimum as your power source approaches delivery of 35 watts. It's better to overpower a speaker than to underpower it the distortion caused when you push a low-powered amp to its limit is much more likely to harm a speaker than too much power.

Your reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking too.... under-powering a speaker and over-driving an amp are completely different things.

 

[que]

(wow) I'll have to agree with sensitivity over power handling if you plan to stick with a non aplified set-up. Efficient speakers will always sound better when not aplified, but when you add an amp into the mix, efficiency is less important.

 

[CHICO2003]

ok... this thread is on the verge of jumping the shark (if it hasn't already) so let's quit the BS and get back on track.

I'm not looking to break the bank with my setup. I'm hopeful that the stock HU will be able to sufficiently power my speakers. Since I'll obviously need a separate amp for my sub... I'd hate to have to buy another for the speakers. So... assuming it's adaquete, should I get low or high powered speakers?

 

[que]

As stated in my post, if your not planning to amp your front stage then get very efficient speakers, something w/ sensitivity above 90db. Like, I think most Focals, but for a very pretty penny, which kinda defeats what your trying to do. Check specs on most high efficient speakers & you will notice that most label their RMS from 5 - to whatever watts. Not a single wattage, but in a range, reason is because more efficient speakers will be "effiecient" when given little power (HU power). As opposed to other components that are cheaper & should be amplified therefore have a sensitivity of 88db or less. So, you want cheap, but don't want to have to adjust volume high to get decent sound? That's kinda tough. Cheapest I say is keep the factory HU (which you want to do), get a decent 2 channel amp, which will give you more options as far as speakers go. Price wise I think that'll be cheaper then spending $300+ on some very efficient components.

 

[CHICO2003]

I feel like buying a seperate amp (not to mention paying someone to install it) sort of defeats the purpose. The cost of the amp, plus the REQ/LOC/Cleansweep & install will undoubtedly be greater than what an aftermarket deck (like the AVIC D3 that I have in my MSP) would cost. (I can get a NEW AVIC D3 for $500!) This thing's better than the AVIC F-series POS they replaced it with. AND it comes with built in NAV. Thing is.. I'm trying to keep the stock look while not breaking the bank. I suppose if I HAVE to get a separate amp to power the speakers... then I miight as well grin and bear the ugliness of having an aftermarket HU. Sort of a shame... Why couldn't Mazda just give us an F'in double din slot?

 

[ecniemann]

I feel like buying a seperate amp (not to mention paying someone to install it) sort of defeats the purpose. The cost of the amp, plus the REQ/LOC/Cleansweep & install will undoubtedly be greater than what an aftermarket deck (like the AVIC D3 that I have in my MSP) would cost. (I can get a NEW AVIC D3 for $500!) This thing's better than the AVIC F-series POS they replaced it with. AND it comes with built in NAV. Thing is.. I'm trying to keep the stock look while not breaking the bank. I suppose if I HAVE to get a separate amp to power the speakers... then I miight as well grin and bear the ugliness of having an aftermarket HU. Sort of a shame... Why couldn't Mazda just give us an F'in double din slot?

Yeah, that would have been nice, huh. I'd go with the CleanSweep and good, efficient speakers. Go more with what sounds best to YOU, not just what specs say. If it does not fit what you want, I'm sure there are more than enough people on Craig's List, e-bay, etc. that would be willing to buy the CleanSweep if you decide to go the new HU route.

 

[CHICO2003]

I found a (slightly used) Cleansweep for $150... I know it's apples to oranges but the REQ5 (can't find any used) new can be had for $100 Cleansweeps and REQ5s are $300 & $180 respectively on Crutchfield so both are good deals. I suppose the Cleansweeps the better deal... but it's also more expensive. I'm leaning towards the REQ5... not only due to the positive reviews (and built in aux) but of course, lower cost. I realize it's only $50 but... it all adds up. Am I making the wrong choice?

 

[ecniemann]

I found a (slightly used) Cleansweep for $150... I know it's apples to oranges but the REQ5 (can't find any used) new can be had for $100 Cleansweeps and REQ5s are $300 & $180 respectively on Crutchfield so both are good deals. I suppose the Cleansweeps the better deal... but it's also more expensive. I'm leaning towards the REQ5... not only due to the positive reviews (and built in aux) but of course, lower cost. I realize it's only $50 but... it all adds up. Am I making the wrong choice?

I don't think so, just make sure the MTX does everything you want before you buy it, so there are no surprises. Any sound shaping corrector is better than the stock system with it's odd crossover, with the cutting out of certain frequencies.