Vicious scraping and rubbing with Blizzak 205/55/17 Steelies, dealer says no steel???

[LukeP]

I threw on my winter tires, and noticed some rubbing and scraping over bumps as it got progressively colder. Today it hit -12 C and it sounds like I'm riding the chassis into the asphalt every time the smallest bump hits. Its vicious sounding. To my knowledge, this wheel/tire combination should work....Do I need spacers? Have I missed something? Lugs are tight and the sound goes away as the car warms up. Once it reaches optimal driving temperature (with the same exterior temperature) its all settled and doesn't rub anymore.

The dealer says steel wheels don't offset the same and you can't use them on the Speed 3. I say bulls***.

Help!

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

What offset are they??

 

[CnoTataymo]

What's the offset on the steelies? Where are you rubbing, the rear? The 205/55/17's are barely taller then stock tires too.

 

[xpnsvxj]

Are you sure they are 17's I have never heard of 17 inch steelies? Also where did you get them from or off what car where they originally on? The reason I ask is because if the hub bore is bigger on the wheel then stock bore this would cause the wheel to be off center. If this is the case you will need hub centric rings. I hope this helps give me some more information and I will try and help you more if I can.

 

[LukeP]

It says 205/55/R17 right down the side of the tire.

I guess I'll have to pull the wheels off and put spacers on, in -12C (coffee)

 

[6262MS3]

Are you sure you're not hearing the front suspension bushings creaking? Our cars all get noisy as hell on the tiniest of bumps in cold weather, which goes away once the car warms up. I can't see how a wrong-offset tire would only rub when cold, especially on small bumps that don't compress the suspension enough for it to hit anything. Mazda certainly failed on their cold weather testing of the ms3.

 

[spdjnke]

It says 205/55/R17 right down the side of the tire.

I guess I'll have to pull the wheels off and put spacers on, in -12C (coffee)

55 series tire even in 17" for the MS3 you can get chassis rub or on the rear struts, that's probably what your hearing.

 

[bacarl]

^I don't agree with that. A 205/55R17 is 25.9" tall and the 215/45R18 is 25.6" tall (7mm difference)... not enough to rub on stuff unless the wheel offset is whacked. Remember that the "series" number or aspect ratio is a percentage of the tire width so you can't say that a 55-series will be too tall as a rule since it depends on the width. Now a 215/55 might be too tall...but the OP's 205/55 is a good size. Also the tire's size won't make it rub on the rear shocks, that's more affected by wheel offset.

It doesn't make sense that it would rub only when cold, so it might be something else. If it is rubbing, you should see witness marks on the fender lip. If your car looks anything like mine right now there's probably enough dirt and salt and crap layered on there (*cries*) that if the tire is rubbing you'll see a spot where that stuff's been rubbed through. I would definitely look for signs of rubbing before you go throwing wheel spacers on.

I'd agree with the creaky bushing theory if I had to guess. For the first couple miles when it's really cold they make a pretty horrible sound, but it's not all that loud and it goes away as heat spreads into them.

 

[spdjnke]

My "theory" is based on what Tire Rack told me so whether it actually is the cause who knows, then again Tire Rack could be wrong, but highly unlikely.

 

[Nliiitend1]

It is DEFINITELY the swaybar bushings making noise, especially if it goes away after the car warms up a bit.

Mine did it all last winter in Chicago everytime the temperature dipped much below freezing. After driving for awhile, it would disappear every time.

 

[absolutamente]

Yeah, it is the bushings for sure. As soon as it hits like -5 it starts to happen. Sounds absolutely horrible, but it goes away once warmed up. Unfortunately you can expect to always have the issue with the car.

 

[GoFast]

My "theory" is based on what Tire Rack told me so whether it actually is the cause who knows, then again Tire Rack could be wrong, but highly unlikely.

i wouldnt be so quick to give tirerack the benefit of the doubt on this one considering they told me that wider tires are better than skinnier tires in the winter.If the tire is rubbing it has nothing to do with the size in this case. The offset is more likely to be the culprit here.

 

[LukeP]

It can't be the bushings, no manufacturer would ever let their car sound like such a piece of junk compared to anything else on the road. This is a grinding sound that I can feel in my butt. I can't see anything in the fender lip but the strut towers definitely have the dirt scraped off them where the tire would travel.

It has to be offset. Unless this car has some kind of special racing bushings that evo 10's or STi's would have that cause the same problem.

 

[Nliiitend1]

If it goes away once you've been driving for awhile, and then returns after the car has been sitting in the cold, it is the bushings. Rubbing/scraping of the wheels/tires would be ever-present.

Seriously.

I'm guessing you didn't have the car last winter??

The sound that the bushings make is horrid, and I seriously thought something was broken/breaking on my car the first time I experienced it.

For the sake of argument, what is the offset/width of the steel wheels you're running? Offset is usually stamped somewhere near the hub...

I'm 99.99999999% sure that it's bushing noise you're hearing.

 

[derspi]

It would be seriously strange if something is rubbing and ONLY causing noise when it's cold and ceases to cause the same noise when it warms up. I have a theory but it's so far out there that even I would question it myself. COULD be a combination of having the wrong offset steelies combined with the fact that when the tires are cold and have been sitting all night, they tend to flatspot a bit as well as there being a bit less tire pressure than when the tire is warmer. This SLIGHT flatspot is rubbing the top of the strut until the tire is up to operating temp and the flatspot has evened out after the tire pressure has increased.

But I'd say more likely it's the bushings - especially the rear anti-roll bar endlinks. I know once the temps have dipped, I get a bit more noise coming from the rear but I'm fairly certain it's the endlink bushings and it's nothing to worry about.

You should first check the offset of the 17" steelies you have. Good luck.

 

[60181]

I can say for sure it's not the tire (rubber) touching anything. I had 215/55/17's and they rubbed in the back, 3/4 of the way towards the inside on the top of the wheel well, but only when I hit speed bumps, driveways or dips. You could clearly see where they were rubbing and it wasn't constant.

They were no where near the struts...but then the offset on mine was good. Just crawl under and look. You'll see for sure if there was rubbing.

The tires were .7" taller than stock. Yours are only .4" taller. AGain, it wouldn't stop when the temps were warm either.

It's likely the bushings.

 

[LukeP]

The only way to resolve this is to put the stock wheels back on in cold weather and drive it...hopefully not into a tree.

I think the flatspotting of the tires could be on the money. Tires tend to deflate until they warm up from tread friction. It could be so close in tolerance that the slightest fractions of offset misplacement could be doing it. I'll have to wait until I have sufficient ambient light outside to check.

I'll also record a video tomorrow and get it on the youtubes. The sound is horrendous, sound like I'm ploughing the entire front grill into the concrete of a steep onramp

IMPORTANT EDIT:

Just wanted to further explain that the sound occurs on suspension compression and not on rebound or small impacts. I don't know if that provides any clues as to bushings or not. If the suspension has to travel over amount X, the scraping sound fills the cabin and vibrations filter into my buttocks. Small impact bumps don't really do it, and dips that make the car wallow are prime causes.

 

[Nliiitend1]

The bushings in question are actually the collar bushings on both the front and rear anti-roll bars.

This is a known issue. It sucks and is annoying, but it's not hurting anything (except maybe your ears). I'm glad I don't have to deal with it this winter (I moved from Chicago to FL this past summer )

 

[Young Roids]

It's not your wheels. They all do this. It's the suspention

 

[nhluhr]

mine doesn't do this at all.

It very well could be interference between the brake caliper and the inside of the steel wheel.
You realize of course (at least i hope you do) that things flex and that metal contracts when it's cold... so the combination of very cold air and a little flex in the wheel bearing or tire on bump can very easily eat up a few mm of space that you have.

With both the caliper and wheel made of steel, it's gonna make a hell-death sound when there is contact - and from your vivid description of the grinding noise that you feel through your seat, that could well be it. Look inside the front wheels for circumferential scrape marks. If there are any, that's your issue.