Mazda5 Diesel?

[Mazda5wannabe]

If Americans don't want diesel, why do so many of them buy pickup trucks with diesel engines?

Answer, Americans think they don't want diesel. I know many Europeans who swear by (and not at) them and I have seen the light, and it's a diesel glow plug.

Contrary to what the oil lobby is telling you, the biggest reason diesel fuel costs more is become the government excises a higher tax on diesel fuel.

The car companies don't have to "stick" their neck out at all. All the R&D has been done in Europe, same as with LPG powered cars. You can buy one of those anywhere else in the world, other than North America. LPG is selling for $0.83/l compared to the $1.10/l here in my town.

 

[rweatherford]

You guys should not talk about ag issues when you clearly don't understand them. Sweet corn is not field corn.......

We export corn every day. They load barges up and down the Mississippi, Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri rivers every day of the year. I could probalby name 10 places in my area alone. The price of "corn" is dictated by the same marketplace as oil. When the dollar goes down usually ag grain prices go up. Which has also caused oil to go up. (dollar is down if you hadn't noticed) Other countries find our prices more attractive and will buy our grain for a higher price. Don't worry we have enough corn for now.

Most of the reason your "corn based" product are higher priced is due to higher fuel cost for delivery, higher health care, advertisement, etc. The actual cost of the corn is very small in a box of Corn Flakes.

 

[07MZ5SA]

Where I fill-up gasoline is $2.829/2.949/3.069 and $3.099 for diesel.

State and federal tax on gasoline is $.384 and $.444 for diesel.

http://www.api.org/policy/tax/stateexcise/upload/July_2007_Notes.pdf

 

[downtube]

Americans who buy big diesel trucks do it for two reasons:
- They want pulling power without guzzling gas
- They want the diesel image. Loud, dirty, vibrating, big.
More of the latter than the former.

Hydrogen power is being grossly misrepresented. Like most technologies, it's going through a PR stage that consists mainly of hype. When you look at the end-to-end process of raw resource (typically natural gas) through refinement (extracting hydrogen) to power generation, hydrogen is neither environmentally clean nor economically cheap. It will eventually find its niche, important but not the world-changer currently promised.

There are existing and emerging technologies that will help. Modern diesel engines are cleaner than gasoline engines, and more fuel efficient. Hybrid technology enables IC engines (gas or diesel) to function more efficiently.

There is no magic bullet.

 

[bulwnkl]

Are you all aware that you get nearly double the amount of gasoline out of a barrel of oil vs. how much diesel fuel you get? That's why diesel isn't going anywhere. Better technologies for combustion (i.e. direct injection, stratified charge, etc.) will make gasoline engines as high or higher mpg as diesel engines. America uses far too much fuel to switch the fleet over to diesel. That change alone would increase the price of crude oil immensely.

Don't get me started on the stupidity of making ethanol for fuel.

 

[sephiroth]

LOL Jandree22...



So let me see if I got it right (scratch)...
a) Since the US market is so large that some technology adoption cycles are much slower if not impossible
b) Diesel pollution perception lasts very long
c) Ethanol and hybrids are the "preferred" government initiatives. Ethanol, supports agriculture. Hybrids, it is a catchy trend only.

ethanol is only sucessful in countries that have millions odlf acres to dedicate to the mass production of fuel and low enough demand. Americia is not one of those countires. If we switched to e85 with current technology there's not a chance in he** supply would be able to keep up with demand not becuase its not only hard to refine, but simply because we don't even have the necessary land mass and farming technology avaliable to harvest the millions of tons of corn or sugar cane necessary to support the us's fuel conclsumption. You've also got to confer that e85 acutaly has less stored energy than gas so mpg would acutaly decrease vs e10 , so harder to refine, produce and you'll be using more of it. Heck if half the reason gas prices are not 20cents cheaper is because of ethanol supply and the inability to ship it with gas. In the end its the consumer that pays for the unecessary incrased cost. Not ranting on you, I'm expanin on why ethanol is only good for farmers and oil companies. I'm writing this from my phone so I apologize for the speling and grammar

 

[Mazda5wannabe]

Are you all aware that you get nearly double the amount of gasoline out of a barrel of oil vs. how much diesel fuel you get? That's why diesel isn't going anywhere. Better technologies for combustion (i.e. direct injection, stratified charge, etc.) will make gasoline engines as high or higher mpg as diesel engines. America uses far too much fuel to switch the fleet over to diesel. That change alone would increase the price of crude oil immensely.

Don't get me started on the stupidity of making ethanol for fuel.

You are misunderstanding fuel production.

You don't "get" twice as much gas, you REFINE twice as much gas. The more you refine oil the higher the aromatic fuel you receive. You could easily refine more diesel than gasoline. You just don't refine it as much.

Diesel doesn't have to "go anywhere". It is a prominent fuel source in every other country in the world and powers ships, planes, trains and large trucks in North America. Diesel engines can burn an wider variety of fuels with very little alteration. A co-worker of mine converted his mid-70s Mercedes diesel to burn used vegetable oil he gets from the local fast food joints. He gets the oil for FREE and saves the restaurants money (it costs them to dispose of the oil) and he pays only the road tax on it as he has officially become a manufacturer of biodiesel. It has saved him thousands of dollars!

Rudolph Diesel built his engine with the intention of using vegetable oil as a fuel source. Diesel engines use compression ignition rather than spark ignition. Diesel fuel is denser and releases more energy than gasoline, which is why it gets better mileage per gallon. It is difficult to comprehend a more efficient internal combustion engine than diesel. The only "problem" with diesel is cold weather starting, which is why diesel fuel has ethanol or other less "dense" fuels added to it in winter, in order to promote cold starts. Biodiesel is even denser, and my friend merely flicks a switch and uses straight diesel during the colder months.

 

[chief_wiggum]

You are misunderstanding fuel production.

You don't "get" twice as much gas, you REFINE twice as much gas. The more you refine oil the higher the aromatic fuel you receive. You could easily refine more diesel than gasoline. You just don't refine it as much.

Diesel doesn't have to "go anywhere". It is a prominent fuel source in every other country in the world and powers ships, planes, trains and large trucks in North America. Diesel engines can burn an wider variety of fuels with very little alteration. A co-worker of mine converted his mid-70s Mercedes diesel to burn used vegetable oil he gets from the local fast food joints. He gets the oil for FREE and saves the restaurants money (it costs them to dispose of the oil) and he pays only the road tax on it as he has officially become a manufacturer of biodiesel. It has saved him thousands of dollars!

Rudolph Diesel built his engine with the intention of using vegetable oil as a fuel source. Diesel engines use compression ignition rather than spark ignition. Diesel fuel is denser and releases more energy than gasoline, which is why it gets better mileage per gallon. It is difficult to comprehend a more efficient internal combustion engine than diesel. The only "problem" with diesel is cold weather starting, which is why diesel fuel has ethanol or other less "dense" fuels added to it in winter, in order to promote cold starts. Biodiesel is even denser, and my friend merely flicks a switch and uses straight diesel during the colder months.

ahh, you beat me to it! I love reading the websites out there talking about the diesel conversions -- ingenuity at its finest! I also don't believe that E-85 is the answer, hydrogen power is still several years and an infrastructure away. Hybrids are a step in the right direction, but still limited by current battery technology. Given all of those -- in my search for better fuel economy, a small 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine makes a lot sense; on average 30% better economy and gobs of torque. I'm more then willing to sacrifice top end speed to have low end grunt. Now, all we have to do is convince Mazda to make a US spec one and start sending them over.

 

[Bo_denmark]

Other thing to consider: Diesel (for cars, not just trucks) in Europe is available in every gas station. I think supply needs to be more adequate in this part of the Globe in order to market the car effectively (oh, did I mention that the Mazda5 does not get any marketing here? )

and add 6MT, (bowdown).


So to get you more jealous : 200Km/hr (~125MPH) @ 3500RPM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_JdmZYTtuUA

hehe YEAR,,, My car..

that video have I postet in another post in here..

pic of my 5
http://www.mazdarally.dk/galleri/thumbnails.php?album=52

 

[TheMAN]

ethanol is only sucessful in countries that have millions odlf acres to dedicate to the mass production of fuel and low enough demand. Americia is not one of those countires. If we switched to e85 with current technology there's not a chance in he** supply would be able to keep up with demand not becuase its not only hard to refine, but simply because we don't even have the necessary land mass and farming technology avaliable to harvest the millions of tons of corn or sugar cane necessary to support the us's fuel conclsumption. You've also got to confer that e85 acutaly has less stored energy than gas so mpg would acutaly decrease vs e10 , so harder to refine, produce and you'll be using more of it. Heck if half the reason gas prices are not 20cents cheaper is because of ethanol supply and the inability to ship it with gas. In the end its the consumer that pays for the unecessary incrased cost. Not ranting on you, I'm expanin on why ethanol is only good for farmers and oil companies. I'm writing this from my phone so I apologize for the speling and grammar

you're forgetting climate plays a big role in crop yields.... countries like brazil are tropical and so they can just plant this s*** and get them all year round

 

[coolmazda5]

hehe YEAR,,, My car..

that video have I postet in another post in here..

LOL, Is that you? . I knew I've seen this somewhere before. Are you the only crazy European taking video of your speedometer at 200Km/hr, or what?

 

[mrbwa1]

While Diesel may be more expensive in most of the US than gasoline, it has not always been so. Also, Diesel/Gas/Kerosene/Heating Oil/Etc are all refined from the same stock. If memory serves me right, diesel is much easer (read cheaper) to refine than gas. All arguments aside, I would gladly take the ~ 150 HP and ~ 280 lb/ft of torque PLUS better gas mileage in our 5 any day! While it might not be faster per se, I gotta imagine that torque would really throw you back in the seat.

 

[07MZ5SA]

.. Given all of those -- in my search for better fuel economy, a small 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine makes a lot sense; on average 30% better economy and gobs of torque. I'm more then willing to sacrifice top end speed to have low end grunt. Now, all we have to do is convince Mazda to make a US spec one and start sending them over.

Actually, we have to convince all auto manufacturers especially those already have diesel in other markets.

I would say the biggest problem with diesel vehicles commercially is higher initial cost and more durable engine. Both spell lower volume.

 

[bulwnkl]

Diesel engines can burn an wider variety of fuels with very little alteration. A co-worker of mine converted his mid-70s Mercedes diesel to burn used vegetable oil he gets from the local fast food joints. He gets the oil for FREE and saves the restaurants money (it costs them to dispose of the oil) and he pays only the road tax on it as he has officially become a manufacturer of biodiesel. It has saved him thousands of dollars!

I agree there's misunderstanding here, or at least misrepresenting. You're mixing fuel type vs. combustion cycles.

I agree that a diesel-cycle engine is more tolerant of the fuel type it uses, although not really once you factor in emissions requirements. Your co-worker using used french fry oil is ingenious, but that 'system' for powering a car only works when almost nobody does it. There's nowhere near enough supply to power the fleet. However, that's still talking about a combustion engine design, and showing that the fuel is not special. Gasoline can be used as the fuel in an engine that is essentially a diesel cycle engine. That's the direction direct injection and and things like stratified-charge technology is going. Like diesel engines? Great, let's use them, but let's don't imply that it's the diesel fuel that makes them great.

 

[Bo_denmark]

LOL, Is that you? . I knew I've seen this somewhere before. Are you the only crazy European taking video of your speedometer at 200Km/hr, or what?

jep thats me.
hmm don't think, but the only in a diesel Mazda 5 hehe

 

[Mazda5wannabe]

I agree there's misunderstanding here, or at least misrepresenting. You're mixing fuel type vs. combustion cycles.

I agree that a diesel-cycle engine is more tolerant of the fuel type it uses, although not really once you factor in emissions requirements. Your co-worker using used french fry oil is ingenious, but that 'system' for powering a car only works when almost nobody does it. There's nowhere near enough supply to power the fleet. However, that's still talking about a combustion engine design, and showing that the fuel is not special. Gasoline can be used as the fuel in an engine that is essentially a diesel cycle engine. That's the direction direct injection and and things like stratified-charge technology is going. Like diesel engines? Great, let's use them, but let's don't imply that it's the diesel fuel that makes them great.

I don't think anybody was implying that the fuel is what makes diesel engines so practical. It's the compression ignition that does, and what makes that controllable is the less refined diesel fuel. You can't have one without the other. To have a compression ignition engine that can use gasoline requires much beefier parts as gasoline is pretty good at exploding. But pound for pound (or gallon to gallon) more HP and Torque are created in a diesel engine, which is why big trucks, trains and ships use diesel for power.

My friend's "system" is easily obtained. In a pinch he can burn kerosene and bunker oil, though with the latter he loses power. The fact is that he can use multiple fuel types and it proves that we can wean ourselves off the gasoline tit.

Exxon made 39.5 BILLION in PROFIT in 2007. Does anyone seriously believe that gas prices are based on anything other than greed?

 

[07MZ5SA]

I
Exxon made 39.5 BILLION in PROFIT in 2007. Does anyone seriously believe that gas prices are based on anything other than greed?

If Exxon-Mobil made a great profit, you should see the way some oil exporting countries burn their money.

 

[07MZ5SA]

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/10/26/mazda-diesels/

1.6L should do.

 

[snax]

We are seriously considering a VW Sportwagon diesel. Mazda would change our minds instantly by offering a diesel.

 

[62Lincoln]

I seriously considered the Jetta Sportwagen before buying the 5. I just couldn't get past VW's abysmal quality reputation, and the sliders on the 5 were the icing on the cake.