ms3 'skittish' under hard braking - thoughts?

[08_MS3_GT]

when braking from higher speeds, my ms3 feels un-planted as if the car's wiggling around. by hard braking, i mean scrubbing speed before a turn - not slamming on the brakes. the back end feels shaky; i know that the car's weight shifts upon braking, but i've driven comparable cars and not had this experience.

does anyone else identify with this? maybe i just need to adjust, but it's not exactly confidence-inspiring when the car doesn't feel planted. it takes steady-state turns like a champ IMO, but at this point trail braking seems out of the question simply because the car feels like it's going to lose control.

any thoughts??? please post up.

oh and in case i misused terms - 'steady-state' = taking a turn @ constant speed (gently on the gas) and 'trail braking' = braking thru a turn, not before it

 

[haberdashery]

get some good coilovers, they make a world of difference. a lot less torque steer, much better handling, and much more stability. stock height or 3" lower, stock softness or rock hard. you can get the BC coilovers for like $850 right now.

 

[Mpower]

Check your tire pressures and make sure you dont have a tire going down.

I dont have any problems with the braking/handling.

 

[08_MS3_GT]

Check your tire pressures and make sure you dont have a tire going down.

I dont have any problems with the braking/handling.

haberdashery, i'll look into the coilovers - but maybe not for awhile since i'm setting aside about that much money for winter tires - woohoo for wisconsin winters...

i doubt that my tire pressures are bad, since the TPMS system isn't yelling at me. but i actually don't know how low the pressure has to be for it to go off..? i'll look into it. the braking/handling is great normally - this concern only applies to 'spirited' driving.

 

[mrjoshyman]

just b/c your TPMS isn't going off doesnt mean you can be off by a bit. Make sure that your fronts are the same, and the rears are the same i believe the drivers door jam calls for 34/22.

I do experience this on occasion -- usually only under relatively hard braking from speed. I'm hoping once I do springs or coilovers (depending on my budget) this will be relieved

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

Not me

when braking from higher speeds, my ms3 feels un-planted as if the car's wiggling around. by hard braking, i mean scrubbing speed before a turn - not slamming on the brakes. the back end feels shaky; i know that the car's weight shifts upon braking, but i've driven comparable cars and not had this experience.

does anyone else identify with this? maybe i just need to adjust, but it's not exactly confidence-inspiring when the car doesn't feel planted. it takes steady-state turns like a champ IMO, but at this point trail braking seems out of the question simply because the car feels like it's going to lose control.

any thoughts??? please post up.

oh and in case i misused terms - 'steady-state' = taking a turn @ constant speed (gently on the gas) and 'trail braking' = braking thru a turn, not before it

I've made panic stops from over 80mph and have been impressed with the amount of control and surefootedness my MS3 has demonstrated. These are the type of stops when you realize that the cars have stopped short in front of you.

 

[haberdashery]

i didnt mean to distract the topic, but my car felt the same before the coilovers is all. some sway bars may also help, not necessarily during breaking, but its a cheap and simple way to stiffen up the car. with my coilovers and sway bar it feels like im driving a miata.

 

[DRKNYTE]

I know exactly what you mean, I`ve been around cars for a long time and the feeling that your describing is a bit unsettling. The rear end almost feels like it is swaying from left to right to left to right.... I`ve also felt the rear end wanting to slide out when entering a corner at high speed with the brake depressed. It dosent seem to do it all the time though.

I`ve been concedering going some where safe and duplicating both these conditions and inducing the squirrellyness to see if the car is really on the verge of going out of control. The funny thing is you can counter both conditions pretty easily!

 

[tiagotiago]

I've also had this same feeling, you break hard and you feel the rear end making small motions, trying to move about, nothing too bad to have to correct, but not confidence inspiring at all. I consider it is a trait of the stock Brigdestones, since other rubber I've had in different cars hasn't behaved this way. I also think it's having them up to temperature. This has happened to me on some occasions when I'm cruising along and arrive at twisties in which I have fun, after a couple of runs I get my concentration up and some temp in the tires, and feel confident enough to brake harder and carry more speed through the corners. Last week I went on a small road trip, at a constant highway legal speeds and had to brake pretty hard for some corners (some of them rather tricky) and I didn't ever feel the car get unsettled that way, so I still think it's temp related.

 

[nhluhr]

The #1 cause for instability under braking is imperfect alignment. But I know what you mean with the MS3... it tends to oversteer heavily under trail braking. Learn to harness that and use it to your advantage. Brake deeper into the corner and then use the straighter exit to lay down the power on the way out.

 

[08_MS3_GT]

thanks for the insights, folks - i'm glad to hear that other people are experiencing this phenomenon - well, not so much glad as reassured that i don't have a lemon. (thumb)

nhluhr, i don't really suspect alignment as the car as 28xx miles on it - it's possible, just not likely (right?). i DEFINITELY feel the oversteering tendency that you mentioned, though.

under normal driving, even spirited driving, i use the brakes ahead of time and don't experience the rear loose-ness. the time i find it happening is when a sharp corner sneaks up on me (i.e. just over a hill crest) and i've got too much speed going into it. instead of having the huevos to go into the corner full-boar, i slam on the brakes as the corner begins, back end wiggles around, etc. etc. i haven't lost control in these situations but it scares the crap outta me.

it might be nothing more than driver error. the ms3 def builds a lot of speed, but my old car did too and its brakes never gave this result. i'm thinking i might find a 'safe' place to induce the hard-braking oversteer and work on controlling it. there are ALWAYS going to be corners that sneak up on me, so i've gotta be ready.

so, this wiggling is easy to control, but does anyone have tips on how to handle it through a sharp corner? while the wiggling is there, does it not actually mean the car is losing control?

 

[nhluhr]

cars never have control.

it might mean you are losing control

It's only driver error if you aren't expecting it and you let it stuff you. But if you anticipate it, you can make it work for you.

It's a simple fact of the LSD and weight transfer helping to lift that ass and toss it around with lateral force. I recommend you find a wide open area (parking lot?) and practice hard braking into a turn just to teach yourself what it does. You'll find the ABS and DSC will allow it to rotate only so far in controlled conditions and then they clamp down on the motion and neutralize the rotation.

 

[tiagotiago]

under normal driving, even spirited driving, i use the brakes ahead of time and don't experience the rear loose-ness. the time i find it happening is when a sharp corner sneaks up on me (i.e. just over a hill crest) and i've got too much speed going into it. instead of having the huevos to go into the corner full-boar, i slam on the brakes as the corner begins, back end wiggles around, etc. etc.

....

so, this wiggling is easy to control, but does anyone have tips on how to handle it through a sharp corner? while the wiggling is there, does it not actually mean the car is losing control?

I've dealt with this situaiton like you state too, for the very same reasons; I don't want to find out I've run myself out of talent by hitting a wall or flying several feet in the air, so I've tried to get all (or 99%) of the breaking done before turning in (sometimes very necessary because of bumpy roads and I'd rather have all the suspension travel available to deal with them than have the front end compressed). And like you state, by being on the gas ever so slightly, the rear end won't want to break away.

And I'm afraid that other than letting the tires get up to temp, and being smooth on the brakes and gas, I don't have much advice to offer.