Test drove a WRX (08)

[SVgamer72]

This is a continuation of my previous thread...
Previous thread titled "Test drove a MS3"

In it I opined...

I have read over and over again how much of a beast the MS3 is, but it sure didn't feel like it to me. It had great power, pulling hard and smooth, but didn't come across as "eye popping". I hammered it pretty good in 2nd and 3rd but never got the tires to break loose. Even if it had come across as a "beast", I was really turned off by the FWD after being spoiled driving my '07 MX-5.

At lunch today I test drove the 2008 WRX hatch to compare it against the 2008.5 MS3. Here are my impressions...

Performance:
In a straight line the WRX seemed to pull about the same (butt dyno) as the MS3. Around a corner the WRX was smoother when on the gas due to being AWD. It also had less torque steer, but to be fair, the MS3 was only bad when I deliberately hammered the throttle in a turn.

From a purely subjective standpoint the MS3 shifted and felt "smoother" when making power. Like a much more expensive and better engineered piece of machinery. I don't know if that is true or not, but that is the impression I got after driving both cars.

So I can only conclude that my performance expectations about how either car performs is/was screwy. My bad, not the MS3 I drove last Sunday. If I get the MS3, I will need to learn how to drive it fast. Hammering it into a corner and steering with the throttle (like with my Mata) just won't cut it.

Handling:
No contest. The MS3 wipes the floor with the WRX in stock form. I would not even drive a WRX off the lot without first having springs and sways put into it. The MS3 feels a bit heavy with some body roll after driving a Miata (with springs and sways) for the past year. The WRX (in stock form) feels like a wallowing cow compared to either Mazda. I thought I was going to get sea sick.

Brakes:
Again going by "butt dyno", the MS3 feels like it is much better stoppers. The WRX brakes felt softer and weaker. It may have been the soft suspension causing the brakes to feel worse than they really are.

Exterior:
The WRX looks MUCH better in person than in pics. I like the way the hatch looks, but it does not excite me. The MS3 has style and aggression in its lines. To me it is an exciting car to look at, where the WRX is a practical one. The STI they had on the lot looks better than an MS3 to me, but the price of admission is ridiculous. For 38K I would get the MS3 and a 2nd gen Miata with a Turbo or SC kit.

Interior:
The WRX is spartan and practical. Much like the exterior it does not excite. The seats are decent, but do not feel sporty. One nice thing about the WRX hatch is more space to load things with the rear seats folded down. The MS3 is narrower with more intrusion from the rear wheel wells. The MS3 interior (especially the GT) seems much "richer" and less utilitarian.

To sum up (all my opinion of course)....
The WRX is a great car that screams "econo-box with grunt", while the MS3 only whispers it.

The only other car I am interested in at this point is a leftover 2008 40th Anniversary RX-8. If the dealer will knock 8K off the sticker, I will be rocking a RWD/Rotary for the foreseeable future. Otherwise it will be a 2008.5 MS3 sometime in the next couple of days.

 

[MM BOOST]

I don't get it, you put the MS3 ahead in all of those categories but then said the wrx moreso than the ms3? Don't make sense to me. The new wrx's looks like a dog had diarrhea and subaru slapped their badge on it.

 

[nextcar]

thanks for the review. i bought my 2008.5 ms3 gt last week. i never considered the wrx because of its price, low gas mileage, ugliness.

however, i wouldn't say that the ms3 looks good. it's a plain looking econobox. my wife thinks it's kinda ugly. but, i do love the performance, and am happy with my purchase.

 

[oskinosmee]

Get the rex and you'd wish you got the ms3 your choice have fun.
BTW the Sti looks worse than the ms3

 

[SVgamer72]

I don't get it, you put the MS3 ahead in all of those categories but then said the wrx moreso than the ms3? Don't make sense to me. The new wrx's looks like a dog had diarrhea and subaru slapped their badge on it.

I don't think that is what I said. (hand)

I like the looks of the WRX STI better than the MS3 (my opinion only and no one else has to agree). The 2008 STI has flared fenders, and different body lines than the standard Impreza or WRX. Both of which look too plain and generic to me. If the MS3 didn't exist, I could see myself getting a new WRX, because it is a lot of car for @25K. The MS3 does exists and it is a lot MORE car than the WRX.

Just to be clear there are only 2 cars on my short list. The RX-8 (if the dealer will knock 8K off the sticker) and the MS3.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

i like the widebody on the wrx sti hatch and the front end isnt terrible, but did they seriously put any thought into that rear end. owe. my eyes. i drove my cousins wrx and i felt my ms3 wins the wrx. the only plus is the awd and honestly without the balls awd is just something to help you get through the snow. in other words, in a race, your awd is all wheel crap. like oskinosmee said, go get the suby and youll be kicking your own ass until your a hunchback. unless you have the extra cash kicking around.

 

[PureDrive]

I have been looking at and test driving both the 08 WRX and the MS3 for a few months now trying to decide which I would prefer.

This last Monday I drove the MS3 again and yesterday I drove an 08 WRX hatchback again. I was surprised how much grunt the WRX had at the lower and mid rpm range and how little if any real turbo lag it had. When I had driven the MS3 on Monday I was impressed with the power first and foremost(mainly 3,4,6). I liked that it seems to have good passing power in 6th on the highway and in 3rd gear going around a bend the car tugged the wheel around in my hands when I really gave it some gas. This was both good and bad in my eyes. I was impressed with the power and it just felt a little raw, that I had to use more skill and driver control to drive the car well. However, I did not like the way the car pulled away from the intended line I was on and made things feel out of control for a little bit (and honestly made me look bad in front of the salesman ... ). I have never owned a powerful FWD car before.

With the WRX I was expecting to be a little disappointed in the power area. I have to say, however, it felt pretty good, comparable to the MS3 all-in-all; I was surprised. I liked 2nd and 3rd (even though I would like to see the gearing in 3rd be shorter), and I was very pleasantly surprised with the feel on the highway, really liking the 5th gear passing power/engine response. I think engine response was better with the WRX and there did not really seem like there was any lag. Bellow 3,000 rpm, the WRX seemed more alive and sporty.

As far as handling, stock for stock, the MS3 is much sharper and tighter. I feel like the WRX was smoother and more connected to the road, however, and feel like with some easy improvements (springs and sway bars) it could be a really good setup for a sporty daily driver. Bone stock, the car does have a ton of roll and feels way too soft. If I would have to drive it stock, I don't know that I could. I have to say that I liked the feeling of AWD much better than the feeling of FWD. That played a big part in my overall experience with the Subaru.

The tranny felt pretty decent in both cars. The brakes felt good in both cars, but I did not really test them out much.

For the interior, I think both are nice in their own ways, with the Mazda looking more special and sporty. The WRX looks like any other base model Impreza. I do like the WRX gauges a great deal more than the MS3's. The seats in the MS3 are more supportive, more sporty, and just a ton cooler. The radio in the MS3 is better. All-in-all, the MS3 just has a more unique and impressive interior experience. For me, the WRX felt more spartan but was ultimately the space that I felt more comfortable in. It felt oddly less cramped than the MS3.

In the exterior department, I actually like both. The Subaru looks MUCH better in person IMO, and I was again surprised how much I liked it (it was a World Rally Blue hatchback). The MS looks clean and sporty, and maybe a little more upscale than the WRX. The chrome thing on the back of the WRX is just ridiculous, along with the tail lights.... Honestly, not much to say about this, as it is all personal preference.

 

[Hyun]

subie are good car, you cant really go wrong....
Id personally go for Legacy than WRX.

 

[Bu11dogg2]

Aftermarket potential is waaaay better for the WRX.

You can put out 400whp on an ms3... but that means nothing goint to two wheels

 

[mordant80]

It's great to see these unbiased reveiws of these two cars. Excellant write ups, thanks guys! The price was my main factor like nextcar.

 

[happy and angry]

However, I did not like the way the car pulled away from the intended line I was on and made things feel out of control for a little bit (and honestly made me look bad in front of the salesman ... ). I have never owned a powerful FWD car before.

Perhaps your expectations weren't realistic for this car. It's a FWD car, it's going to understeer a lot if you are on the throttle in a corner. A better better is to be off throttle or lightly on throttle just to maintain speed before corner entry, and wait to pass the apex before getting back on it. You can also adjust your line by coming off throttle to induce oversteer (controlled, mind you). You just can't hammer on it in a corner like a Miata and think that throttle will straighten it out - it's going to just make it worse.

That said, if you don't like the FWD dynamic then maybe it's not the car for you. I think it's a better deal than the WRX, personally, but that's just me. The only reason the 0-60 and 1/4 numbers on the WRX are comparable to the MS3 is because it has the AWD advantage from a dig. The MS3 has a lot more power on the highway where you're going to be using it most anyway. I'm right with you on the looks thing, too, though. I don't mind the new WRX at all, and the STi is pretty attractive too. However, the big kicker for me was the steering response and the room in the back. The WRX hatch has less cargo space, and I wanted as much functionality as I could get.

To each their own.

 

[Hyun]

Yup, different technique and driving style req for diff layout.

 

[PureDrive]

Perhaps your expectations weren't realistic for this car. It's a FWD car, it's going to understeer a lot if you are on the throttle in a corner. A better better is to be off throttle or lightly on throttle just to maintain speed before corner entry, and wait to pass the apex before getting back on it. You can also adjust your line by coming off throttle to induce oversteer (controlled, mind you). You just can't hammer on it in a corner like a Miata and think that throttle will straighten it out - it's going to just make it worse.

That said, if you don't like the FWD dynamic then maybe it's not the car for you. I think it's a better deal than the WRX, personally, but that's just me. The only reason the 0-60 and 1/4 numbers on the WRX are comparable to the MS3 is because it has the AWD advantage from a dig. The MS3 has a lot more power on the highway where you're going to be using it most anyway. I'm right with you on the looks thing, too, though. I don't mind the new WRX at all, and the STi is pretty attractive too. However, the big kicker for me was the steering response and the room in the back. The WRX hatch has less cargo space, and I wanted as much functionality as I could get.

To each their own.

When I started out looking at the two cars I was expecting the MS3 to feel much stronger/faster than the WRX, as that it what it says on paper and every review says powerful it is. From my test drives, I honestly have to say that I did not feel much difference in overall power and speed. I was expecting, waiting for it, but I just did not experience it. I thought both cars did pretty well. If I had to say one was faster than the other, I would say it was the Speed, but not by a huge margin and I am not sure how influenced that is by all the reviews. As I stated above, 2nd and 3rd on the WRX pulled pretty good. I feel that the highway power of both cars in their top gears was the same. This may have something to do with the fact that the WRX hits peak torque at only 2,800rpms, which may make it have better engine response at highway speeds because the rpm's are right there when you are cruising at 70-75mph.

I don't know, the more I think about it, I just liked the power delivery of the WRX better and the feeling of power coming from the rear wheels, as well as the fronts. I think I much prefer the AWD driving dynamics to FWD, as you can use the gas pedal to help modulate your line more.

It is hard choice between the two and I really don't think one can go wrong with either one. I like that I can easily mod the suspension in the WRX with springs and sway bars to get tighter handling for not much more money. Also, the WRX comes on 205/50/17 crappy all-season tires, where the MS3 has 18" summer performance tires. Simply putting a decent performance tire and wheel package (or simply performance summer tires on the stock wheels) on the WRX would make a huge difference in handling feel and performance. I live in MA so we get a bunch of snow each winter, and I could just use the stock wheels and tires as my winter setup. And in general, the AWD is a plus for the snow and rain...

On the other side, there is no practical way to mod the MS3 to have AWD somewhere down the line...

It is nice to have a 6-speed with the Mazda.

I don't know...

 

[PureDrive]

I want both ...




And I wish my old 91 RX-7 had not blown up all those years ago...

 

[jwdp54]

ill stick with my ms3

 

[PureDrive]

ill stick with my ms3

Thanks for adding to the conversation...your deep thoughts are appreciated and will be pondered on for ages to come...








PS - I'm happy you like your MS3...

 

[mo08ms3]

After having my MS3 for over a month, everytime I drive my wife's 07 WRX, it feels a little sluggish. I had an 02 WRX but never test drove a 08 WRX. I did test drive an 08 STI about a week before getting the MS3. I loved the STI all around but not for that price. The MS3 seems to have just about as much useable power from the butt dyno (for my driving needs) but I was out the door almost 15K cheaper with the MS3. It is hands down the better value IMO, and I do not regret my decision at all.

 

[happy and angry]

When I started out looking at the two cars I was expecting the MS3 to feel much stronger/faster than the WRX, as that it what it says on paper and every review says powerful it is. From my test drives, I honestly have to say that I did not feel much difference in overall power and speed. I was expecting, waiting for it, but I just did not experience it. I thought both cars did pretty well. If I had to say one was faster than the other, I would say it was the Speed, but not by a huge margin and I am not sure how influenced that is by all the reviews. As I stated above, 2nd and 3rd on the WRX pulled pretty good. I feel that the highway power of both cars in their top gears was the same. This may have something to do with the fact that the WRX hits peak torque at only 2,800rpms, which may make it have better engine response at highway speeds because the rpm's are right there when you are cruising at 70-75mph.

Well... to give you an idea how different the two cars are in terms of power... if you ever see a WRX drag an MS3, you'll see the WRX get maybe one or two car lengths off the launch and then see the MS3 reel it in the rest of the run. On a highway or from a roll, the WRX can't hang with the MS3. From a roll, the MS3 hangs with an STi better than a WRX hangs with the MS3.

But you're right, sometimes it won't feel that way, and that's honestly a product of the drivetrain. The power delivery just feels different from a RWD/AWD vehicle when compared to a FWD vehicle.

I don't know, the more I think about it, I just liked the power delivery of the WRX better and the feeling of power coming from the rear wheels, as well as the fronts. I think I much prefer the AWD driving dynamics to FWD, as you can use the gas pedal to help modulate your line more.

You ever hear of "off throttle over steer" ? You can use it to control your line in the MS3 pretty well, actually. The WRX just isn't as fast on a strip or a track. I mean, stock MS3's dyno more hp/lb.ft to the wheels than a WRX has at the crank.

I'm not saying buy an MS3 if you don't want one, or what have you. Buy what you are happier with. I will say that your "butt dyno" and the gut feeling you have about how fast these two cars are isn't very accurate or objective. By all means get the car that speaks better to you and feels better when you drive it, but don't make the mistake of thinking they are all that similar in terms of performance. The 0-60 times and 1/4 times are misleading.

As for the winter thing... I live in Ottawa, Canada. Last winter we had multiple 12-16 inch snowfalls and my MS3 handled them like a champ. I didn't have any problems with grip, but then I bought a good set of winter tires.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

i think the reason the wrx feels like it pulls like the ms3 in the butt dyno honestly is because of the seating. the ms3 has such nice bucket style seats to hold you in tight esp in corners with the high sides and bolster. the wrx is a flat seat with little support resembling more that of the daily driver car than a sports car. the ms3 has that luxurious sports car feel to it unlike the wrx which has the daily driver sports car feel to it. so when you rail on the car your planted better in the ms3. thats 1 of the things i noticed anyway.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

As for the winter thing... I live in Ottawa, Canada. Last winter we had multiple 12-16 inch snowfalls and my MS3 handled them like a champ. I didn't have any problems with grip, but then I bought a good set of winter tires.

im glad to hear winter tires make the diff. my ms3 handled like crap here in ma with the stock. lol. i couldnt get up a frost heave if i got a 30 mph head start. haha.

I live in MA so we get a bunch of snow each winter, and I could just use the stock wheels and tires as my winter setup. And in general, the AWD is a plus for the snow and rain...

where abouts in MA do you reside? i live in charlton. i could change your mind on the ms3 in no time flat. i have put under 1000 in mods on my car and i know any comparison to my mods list on the wrx my car would own. (speculation but i dont see how another car could open up so fast for so little money, its crazy how much this thing is held back) this car is a beast. i know as long as i can get some winter tires on this thing for the snow months ill be set. the power in the snow with this car isnt a problem....its the traction with those performance tires. put a set of winters on it and itll be just like any other fwd car in the snow. whats that like a couple hundred bucks? small feet when you pay 25000 for something you want to own and like for a long time. let me know and i can meet you somewhere.