happy and angry
Member
You apparently do not understand socialism, causality, or my point.
gas prices
- Thread starter oaklandopen
- Start date
China and India are becoming terrible polluters as a result of rampant and unchecked commercial capitalism taking a foothold in their society. There's no goverment oversight or industry controls over pollution and manufacturing. Just the way we were circa 1910. Capitalists run amock.
And I disagree, because there are many state owned industries in the European nations (France, Sweden, Germany, Norway) that are some of the least polluting nations on the planet. Through their semi socialist govermental programs, they actively work toward reducing emmissions.
I agree.
First page man... first page. And don't say I didn't warn ya.
Besides "economics 101" this helps explain why EVERYTHING is getting more expensive.
Inflation is sold to us as a rise in level of prices of goods and services over time.
I think a better way to think of it is the falling value of our currency when compared to gold over time.
The big industries in China that are polluting are state run with state over sight, fox guarding the hen house. They are still socialistic countries. Mexico is another good example, socialistic in nature and heavily polluted. The countries you mentioned have the highest taxes and the highest prices for gas. Jobs are fleeing those countries as are their young workers. They are being replaced with imigrants from north Africa and other muslim nations causing huge social problems. Bicycles are fast becoming the most common means of travel.
I do like what France is doing with Nuclear power and I wish we would move in that direction.
builthatch
Member
Well gentlemen we can go on and on about this. I really do hope the market evens itself but it's not looking good right now. Just this week I've talked to several of our stable clients and they've had to lay off a lot more people than they wanted (first time in years) - they had no choice. Gas prices are the topic everywhere. We'll see what the future holds.
A lead salesman of a fencing company we do it work for said his monthly gas bill right now is $1500. Yeah he drives a chevy avalanche but has no choice as he needs it to haul stuff. That's a mortgage payment right there for some people.
A lead salesman of a fencing company we do it work for said his monthly gas bill right now is $1500. Yeah he drives a chevy avalanche but has no choice as he needs it to haul stuff. That's a mortgage payment right there for some people.
Last edited:
totally with you on that. Anyone wanna guess why we can't move in that direction? My only concern would be the disposal of the waste. I know tech has come a long way in that regard but I'm not very savvy about Nuclear waste disposal.
Also great points on China and Mexico.
Last edited:
I brought them up trying to make a point. You come in here hurling insults left right and center then have the gaul to talk about "reasonable discourse"? Who do you think you're kidding.
Don't forget Mrs. Hillary "I want to take those profits" Clinton.
Not to get political but politics does have connections with what we're experiencing with gas prices today. There are solutions to these problems but it seems like they all end with someone getting the short end of the stick.
Last edited:
happy and angry
Member
The only person I've insulted is the guy that tried to equate the oil markets with food markets, because that is a patently dumb idea. Here's what happens if you can't afford gas: you find another way to get to work, we as a society find another way to get s*** done. Here's what happens if you can't eat: you die. It was a dumb thing to suggest, and deserved what it got.
And beyond that.... What point? You have no point. You use words (communism/socialism) that have been so twisted from their actual meaning in the US over the last 40 years that any point you are making is vague at best, you define those words using bloody awful generalizations, you fail to distinguish between matters of degree regarding those words, and you're being sort of obtuse. You're arguing that correlation is causation (some socialist countries polute ergo socialism causes polution), you don't even understand what socialism is save your tinfoil hat definition of CHINA and COMMUNIST RUSSIA and probably some crap about HUGO CHAVEZ, and you're generalizing everywhere. You're talking politics and the impact it has on society by busting out ridiculous, generalized talking points. IE: "Don't forget Mrs. Hillary "I want to take those profits" Clinton." A gross oversimplification of her position on the subject, distilling a complex and nuanced perspective on a complex and nuanced problem into a short, pointless, disingenuous soundbyte.
No offense, but you're not worth discussing this particular tangent of this particular topic with.
Last edited:
no offense but you're a bitter, pompous, arrogant excuse for a human being (thumb)
The line between socialism and communism is so blurred these days, that it could be debated for hours (not that I'm an expert on either). But thats not the point I'm trying to make.
My point is simple: Let the free markets work.
Last edited:
happy and angry
Member
No, it isn't. But you're not an expert, so I'm not surprised you think that way.
They are. A perfectly free market is just as broken as a perfectly regulated market. Western and European markets are, for the most part, free, wish some regulation. Sometimes that regulation is pretty dumb, most of the time it isn't. The "free market" as you put it IS working - witness the rise of oil prices!
Which is/might being followed by:
1. More efficient cars being developed and designed
2. More alternative fuel sources
3. America expanding its drilling/refining capabilities
While the price on gas does put a pinch on the wallet, I'm not blaming it on the oil companies or people driving SUV's. Thats not where my beef lies. I know that the reason for rising gas prices is emerging economies & the falling dollar.
As far as the whole socialism/communism thing goes, I understand that Socialism works on the concept of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their DEEDS, and Communism is "from each according to their ability to each according to their NEEDS." Socialism is a step on the way to Communism.
While I do agree with you that they are very different I think that their main similarity is in the fact that they both focus on equality for the people in theory anyway. They both aim to abolish private ownership, and believe that companies, land, and other resources should be govt. owned and controlled and not privately owned.The idea of public ownership and centralized planning are the main similarities. Having lived in Socialist Cuba for 3 years and having my family live in Communist Russia for 4 years, I'm thankful to God that I live in the United States of America.
Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's worked pretty well for this immigrant thus far.
P.S: sorry for calling you pompous and arrogant. I just lost it for a bit. My apologies.
I suggested the food for oil deal only with the OPEC countries that are sucking us dry, not africa or poor countries. It was an attempt to be humorous but liberals have no since of humor, everything is always bad.
Liberals are also the ones that are intollerant, not conservatives, as this post is proof.
It's Hillary and other liberals that ingage in gross oversimplification by saying that it's BIG OILS fault and failing to bring up their resisitance to drilling and the high taxes that they want to inpose.
There are different levels of socialism , I agree. What we have in this country is creeping socialism.
If you don't beleive what Hugo Chavez is doing is moving to socialism then you in fact don't know what socialism is.
The discriptive words that describe your beliefs have changed over time, started as SOCIALISM, then moved to LIBERALISM and now it's called PROGRESSIVE thinking. The name keeps changing because people discover over time the failure of this mentallity. They call it something else when the name becomes synonymus with failure.
+1
I'm being very general here but you can't have too much of anything. Too much freedom and you basically have corporate ownership of the government. Too little freedom and you have governments like Cuba and much of the third world. There has to be a balance. Both ends of the spectrum lead to a bad situation.
Donas64:
^^ I can see why you think the way you think. But the other extreme isn't always better. Your train of thought is shared by countless Cubans down here who continue to vote against their best interests having been tainted from birth to believe everything Republican is anti Castro.
As for your generalization of liberals, remember who has been in complete control of the government for the last 8 years. I remeber $1.45 gas before Bush took office. Of course everything can't be blamed on the rebublicans but his actions over the past 8 years hasn't helped. You talk about the weak dollar which is accurate however look at the cost of the War. Who started it?
Just to clarify any confusion, I'm Nigerian.
......and anti Castro to boot. Also, I don't think I used the term liberal in any of my posts but I could be wrong, but I did quote Hillary Clinton: The queen of oversimplification and band-aid solutions like the gas tax holiday. At least Obama (who I don't care for much either) called her out on that one and I give him props for that.(thumb)
Last edited:
happy and angry
Member
You're kind of dumb.
Normally I'm not a dick like this, but you're kind of dumb. Even as a joke the idea: "Let's leverage OPEC nations with something required to live so that we can have cheaper access to a resource that makes our lives more convenient" falls flat.
The rest of your post simply isn't worth rebutting. Not everything is bad, just your reasoning.
OPEC has the money to buy the food.
I thought liberals wanted the rich to pay more so why not make the richest of all pay a CORN tax. They will not starve, just pay more.
Your right, I'm not smart enough to believe that socialism can work.
