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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
you're at least 25K from needing to do this (105k is the maint requirement)....i'm at 111...i'll be doing mine next month
Timing belt and water pump - DIY?
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Well, the 24mm wrench distributes the torque across the whole cam better than just turning the cam gear. The other thing is that you need to actually examine/view the cam gear as the cam is turning so you know where to line up the cam gear. The gear is what dictates the timing alignment... much more so than trying to guess based on each cam location. When I timed my gears, the intake cam turns clockwise one "notch" on the gear (like from 12 o'clock to maybe 12:30) without a torque on the cam. That one notch makes a WORLD of difference and I'm (we're) pretty sure that this is why I have a ticking noise now
We're all hoping that the ticking noise is just a bent valve and not the bottom end. It makes sense to me that the timing was off by the one notch, I started her over, that bent the valves right away and now the ticking is the bent valves trying to seat themselves. But, like I said, that's what I'm hoping it was. lol, I have three other heads just waiting, so changing the head, while a b****, is much easier than pulling the block cuz I f'ed up the bottom because of this timing. So, like I said, lol, the timing is VERY IMPORTANT!As for the bolts, the waterpump and oil pump bolts are the same and I popped one of the oil pump bolts at ~ 14 ft-lbs. I was really lucky that there was thread sticking out of the block, so a vice grip just pulled it right out. And, they give absolutely no warning...
As far as the extra coolant, There are two 1/2" (?)rubber hoses that mount to the firewall and then back over to the driver side of the head. Both hoses tuck under the intake mani and I'm assuming that's where your extra coolant was. When you take off the upper rad hose and the lower rad hose (thermostat), take them off from the radiator side and have them dangle off of the engine and drain into a pan for fifteen minutes or so. When you take the thermostat out, you will need a pan under it, cuz it will spew out alot of coolant. The other side note for the thermostat is this: the thermostat goes into it's groove before the gasket goes on.
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I meant GMB....The one in the Ebay link posted.
And I dont care how nice,friendly or knowledgable "YOUR" parts guy is..If he sell A GMB branded pump..Its still junk. But my comment had nothing to do with where you get your parts...Merely not to buy a Cheap part that was listed.
I know you didn't say anything about those..I was trying to steer you away from a bad part...No big deal...Thats all.
No offense taken. The one I got was a Hytech. Brand new, not a reman. Looks like a quality part.
Anyone know the size of the deep-socket required for the engine mount bolt(s)? I have up to a 15mm deep socket, but if I need a 17mm I'll get one tomorrow while I'm borrowing the pulley puller tool at the same store.
Thanks.
Too funny. I was watching one like that.
I think I'll look elsewhere.
I am doing mine at only 58K cuz I figure with the cylinder head swap (Thursday!), everything will be easily accessible. (godown)
Besides if I don't, it will be the next thing to fail anyway.
I will check other prices.
PG was $129 i think for TB kit. Not sure about WP.
** VOTE ** - move to HOW TO section !!
WE DID IT!
It took us from 8am - 4:30pm including 30 minutes for lunch, but we did it. Not one lost bolt or nut, no more than 10 "minor flesh wounds", and we learned a LOT.
My only few words of advice for those trying this themselves, aside from what's been said here:
PS: mandatory tools required: Shallow and deep 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" drive sockets. A 21mm shallow socket for the crank pulley bolt (or use the tire iron? and a jack handle to break that loose!). Various assortment of extensions in the 3 sizes of drives. Minimum "nice to have" extensions (even daisy chained) in the 1/2" drive variety would be about 12" worth. Helps with the crank pulley bolt. Torque wrenches in 3/8" drive (in-lbs) and 1/2" drive (ft-lbs). You need a range from about 25 in-lbs, to about 125 ft-lbs, between the two torque wrenches -- use the service manual specs for these!! 24mm AND a 15/16" wrench for the cams -- you will likely need to use both at once so having two wrenches that works, makes things easier. Magnetizer -- for those small 10mm bolts on the back of the valve cover, so they don't fall. (bang)
All-in-all, this was a very rewarding project from a learning and cost-savings perspective. I'm very glad my friend Richie and I got this done, as we both learned a TON about how this kind of thing is done, and what it takes to be a DIY mechanic!
It took us from 8am - 4:30pm including 30 minutes for lunch, but we did it. Not one lost bolt or nut, no more than 10 "minor flesh wounds", and we learned a LOT.
My only few words of advice for those trying this themselves, aside from what's been said here:
- Having 2 people makes things WAY easier. For example, the water pump pulley -- have one wrap the belt around it and hold it stationary, while the other person undoes the bolts.
- For the tensioner spring, do NOT install it until the NEW timing belt is fully lined up and ready to go (ie: after you spin the crank twice around to ensure timing is right). We bent the new tensioner spring to heck without realizing it, by putting too much torque on the tensioner. The old spring went back on and yes, we checked it was still within the limit as per the service manual. I would have felt better with the new one, but it was a Saturday and the parts places closed.
- Have one or two 8.5" x 11" pieces of paper with a grid drawn on each. In this grid, label what bolts come from what piece. ie: water pump bolts. Valve cover bolts. etc... It just saves a lot of time on reassembly.
- Ensure you double and triple check the timing before putting any pulleys back on. No, we didn't get caught with this, but we did notice our timing was one tooth off on the intake side after spinning the crank a few times around and really ensuring things were lined up 100%. That was a PITA to change, as there is next to no slack on the final cam gear you install the belt on.
- This is what took the MOST time out of any one task: Finding the damn hole in the automatic tranny to jam the tire iron into, to stop the crank from moving! The hole is located just about 1" to the passenger side of the front/rear crossmember that goes below the transmission. It's pretty hidden unless you really get under there. Be careful when jamming the tire iron "flat" part in here as you don't want to damage the teeth. You might need to rig something up with a large wrench on the end of the tire iron, to get enough leverage off of the crossmember to hold it in here while someone else gets the crank pulley bolt off. Once we found this hole (literally about 1hr later after also checking Google and this site!), things really flew along.
- Follow the service manual for the correct order of things, but also reference the pictures provided in the cam install thread on this site. Also, the tips given in this thread by the many helpful people are REALLY useful.
PS: mandatory tools required: Shallow and deep 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" drive sockets. A 21mm shallow socket for the crank pulley bolt (or use the tire iron? and a jack handle to break that loose!). Various assortment of extensions in the 3 sizes of drives. Minimum "nice to have" extensions (even daisy chained) in the 1/2" drive variety would be about 12" worth. Helps with the crank pulley bolt. Torque wrenches in 3/8" drive (in-lbs) and 1/2" drive (ft-lbs). You need a range from about 25 in-lbs, to about 125 ft-lbs, between the two torque wrenches -- use the service manual specs for these!! 24mm AND a 15/16" wrench for the cams -- you will likely need to use both at once so having two wrenches that works, makes things easier. Magnetizer -- for those small 10mm bolts on the back of the valve cover, so they don't fall. (bang)
All-in-all, this was a very rewarding project from a learning and cost-savings perspective. I'm very glad my friend Richie and I got this done, as we both learned a TON about how this kind of thing is done, and what it takes to be a DIY mechanic!
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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
wow, good for you! you make me want to have at it!....(uhm)
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- 02 p5
just wanted to post up my opinion on the ebay kit.
DO NOT USE IT!!!!!!!!!!
I will start with the first reason. Mine did come with the tensioner spring. Thing is, it only lasted about ... I dk.... 500 miles before it stretched and the belt jumped timing. Good thing the FS is non interference. I don't have a local Mazda dealer so I went to Ford and ordered the spring for a probe, but they said it could take up to 5 days. I need my car to drive because it is all I have, so I ended up going to the hardware store and finding a spring that looked like it was close to the factory one. I knew it was risky, but I ended up using it for 5000 miles or so with no problems. The Ford spring was Made in japan, so I know its the same I would have gotten from Mazda.
The second flaw I ran into was with the tensioner itself. It seemed to be kinda stiff when I replaced the spring, but I remembered my old one being somewhat stiff as well, so I assumed it was okay. I will try to never assume anything about my car ever again. After about 3000 miles my car started making a strange squeal. I popped the hood and didn't notice anything loose, so I "assumed" it was okay to drive for a little while longer until I had time to diagnose it. When I had a chance to take a look, I noticed that the belt had rubbed a hole in the timing cover. The tensioner also failed. I'm not sure how long it lasted because I drove it without knowing the actual extent of the damage. At that point I acquired a factory tensioner. This is also when I put in the Probe tensioner spring. At the same time I decided to change the front crank seal since my car is coming up on 150,000 miles. The fel-pro seals dont fit like the factory one. They are extremely hard to press in and once I got it running this time it was leaking oil everywhere.
This created the 4th timing belt change I have had to do on the car.
Now I understand why my father always told me to buy the factory parts. I now have a factory tensioner, factory spring, and unfortunately a fel-pro gasket. I would have went to the ford dealer, but the gaskets are discontinued for the probe so I couldn't order it.
The moral of the story...... Quality matters. The Ebay kit didn't even last 10,000 miles. Pay the extra money and get the factory parts. It wouldn't have been too bad if I wasn't a Full time student commuting 80 miles to school, and working full time. It also did not discourage me from continuing to do my own work.
The highlight is I am now a professional at changing the timing belt/ waterpump. I can have it apart in less than 45 minutes and back together running in less than 2 hours total.
another note, if you are doing it alone. like i always do. I get frustrated with people around LOL, It is ALOT easier to take the crank pulley bolt off with a nice impact than with a breaker bar. It does however take a pretty serious impact. I tried a small 250ft/lb my dad had and it did nothing. I ended up borrowing a 1000 ft/lb MAC gun from a friend of mine. Makes life much easier. Just don't put it back on with it.... might be too good!
DO NOT USE IT!!!!!!!!!!
I will start with the first reason. Mine did come with the tensioner spring. Thing is, it only lasted about ... I dk.... 500 miles before it stretched and the belt jumped timing. Good thing the FS is non interference. I don't have a local Mazda dealer so I went to Ford and ordered the spring for a probe, but they said it could take up to 5 days. I need my car to drive because it is all I have, so I ended up going to the hardware store and finding a spring that looked like it was close to the factory one. I knew it was risky, but I ended up using it for 5000 miles or so with no problems. The Ford spring was Made in japan, so I know its the same I would have gotten from Mazda.
The second flaw I ran into was with the tensioner itself. It seemed to be kinda stiff when I replaced the spring, but I remembered my old one being somewhat stiff as well, so I assumed it was okay. I will try to never assume anything about my car ever again. After about 3000 miles my car started making a strange squeal. I popped the hood and didn't notice anything loose, so I "assumed" it was okay to drive for a little while longer until I had time to diagnose it. When I had a chance to take a look, I noticed that the belt had rubbed a hole in the timing cover. The tensioner also failed. I'm not sure how long it lasted because I drove it without knowing the actual extent of the damage. At that point I acquired a factory tensioner. This is also when I put in the Probe tensioner spring. At the same time I decided to change the front crank seal since my car is coming up on 150,000 miles. The fel-pro seals dont fit like the factory one. They are extremely hard to press in and once I got it running this time it was leaking oil everywhere.
This created the 4th timing belt change I have had to do on the car.
Now I understand why my father always told me to buy the factory parts. I now have a factory tensioner, factory spring, and unfortunately a fel-pro gasket. I would have went to the ford dealer, but the gaskets are discontinued for the probe so I couldn't order it.
The moral of the story...... Quality matters. The Ebay kit didn't even last 10,000 miles. Pay the extra money and get the factory parts. It wouldn't have been too bad if I wasn't a Full time student commuting 80 miles to school, and working full time. It also did not discourage me from continuing to do my own work.
The highlight is I am now a professional at changing the timing belt/ waterpump. I can have it apart in less than 45 minutes and back together running in less than 2 hours total.
another note, if you are doing it alone. like i always do. I get frustrated with people around LOL, It is ALOT easier to take the crank pulley bolt off with a nice impact than with a breaker bar. It does however take a pretty serious impact. I tried a small 250ft/lb my dad had and it did nothing. I ended up borrowing a 1000 ft/lb MAC gun from a friend of mine. Makes life much easier. Just don't put it back on with it.... might be too good!
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hey u812...
When you say the tbelt wore a hole in the cover, how did this happen? From a loose belt, or some other way? We noticed once we replaced everything and turned the crank numerous times to check everything... that the belt didn't stay "centred" on the cam gears where we had installed it. It came "outward" so it was basically flush with the passenger side of the cam gears and crank gear. It didn't go much past this though.
Does the large "washer thing" that goes on the crank gear, before the crankshaft pulley, keep the belt from coming off any further?
That's my only real concern with the install... but it's been fine for about 75+ miles already... perfectly fine.
When you say the tbelt wore a hole in the cover, how did this happen? From a loose belt, or some other way? We noticed once we replaced everything and turned the crank numerous times to check everything... that the belt didn't stay "centred" on the cam gears where we had installed it. It came "outward" so it was basically flush with the passenger side of the cam gears and crank gear. It didn't go much past this though.
Does the large "washer thing" that goes on the crank gear, before the crankshaft pulley, keep the belt from coming off any further?
That's my only real concern with the install... but it's been fine for about 75+ miles already... perfectly fine.
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- 02 p5
my problem was that the tensioner wore away in the middle where the bolt goes through it. this caused the tensioner to sit crooked away from the block so the belt was pulled off the gears resulting in the holes in the cover. basically only about half of the belt was actually on the cam gears.
From what i have seen, the belt tends to sit more towards the outside of the gears, but mine has no overhang, it sits a couple millimeters inside the gears. that washer, if you talking about the thin almost aluminum looking one, is what makes sure it stays in place so as long as everything is straight you shouldn't have a problem.
if it was rubbing the cover... believe me, you will know. It is really loud!!!
If your worried about it, It doesn't take much to pull the valve cover and take a look.
From what i have seen, the belt tends to sit more towards the outside of the gears, but mine has no overhang, it sits a couple millimeters inside the gears. that washer, if you talking about the thin almost aluminum looking one, is what makes sure it stays in place so as long as everything is straight you shouldn't have a problem.
if it was rubbing the cover... believe me, you will know. It is really loud!!!
If your worried about it, It doesn't take much to pull the valve cover and take a look.
Did you test your tensioner (not too stiff, not free-wheeling) before reassembling everything? The service manual says to replace the tensioner pulley if it free-spins or is stuck. Mine was somewhat free-spinning but there were seemingly no bearing problems, as it spun smoothly.
If my wife notices noise this week, I'll pull the valve cover and check, but I think it's all good for now! It's sitting just about where it was with the old belt, so that's reassuring.
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- 02 p5
yea i changed the tensioner... that was the cause of my problems. I posted about that nightmare on page 2 LOL. It took a couple thousand before i really noticed any problems. Now im back to a mazda tensioner and couldn't be happier
