He did have a CEL, throwing 2 lean codes (if I remember). Some sensor was cocked to one side which made his pump malfunction.
who wants a CDFP upgrade?
- Thread starter mrlilguy157
- Start date
He did have a CEL, throwing 2 lean codes (if I remember). Some sensor was cocked to one side which made his pump malfunction.
mrlilguy157
Member
- :
- 07 mazdaspeed 3
anks for the input and comments guys... I'm in between classes right now but just checked up on this thread. As always, shoot me a pm if anybody has questions or concerns, and leave me a voicemail at 214.957.0461 if youd like to chat. I'll get back to people when I can, and have a better post when I get to a computer.
Jonathan Martin
Jonathan Martin
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
this is correct. if the sensor is angled wrong or turned during installation it can easily cause poor drivability which is what palerider was experiencing.
we have sent three new pumps out in the last week, two have reported back with success but the third person has yet to contact me with results. once he does so and does so with positive results i will feel more confident re-starting the program.
driver.... did the pump get rid of your cut issues ?
since we have very similar mods, i really want to know. if after the pump you still cut with high boost in the cold, i need to look for a new solution. on the other hand if this fixed it all..... i'll be needing a new pump !!
lol... two codes the first night... two the second day... and I lost count the third(maybe 9 or 10) I got one about every time I cranked it and drove. But strangely the driving characteristics of the car remained somewhat normal. Maybe a little fuel cut right before boost and then ran like a mofo and rich once boost hit. Its like the more the ECU adjusted for it.... boost rocked and the lean spot got worse.
The CELs were all p2187 and p2177.... lean codes.
The sensor was cockeyed a little. We noticed that when we installed it but didnt think it mattered. Later Redrocketz from PG mentioned in a subsequent conversation he had with Auto tech that it could be a problem. I hope this may help by straightening it.... but it may not.
The standback I have is the one Laloosh had with his pump. He left his maps in there and it was extremely interesting to me. In the rpm ranges that I was getting codes/ fuel cut/ stutter.... maybe 2500-2900... he was adding 7 units on 15 psi map and 13 units of fuel on the 18 psi map. Laloosh correct me if Im wrong here.... Or if you read this and have any thoughts.
My idea is that maybe this lean spot, untuned, with my car, and the MS CAI... it was enough to send it over the edge.
Either way... I dont think this is a quality control problem per say. These pumps basically were brought to market on the experiences of two cars. If you read these boards and see how finicky these babies are to damn near everything from a TMIC to BOV to CAI.... it only stands to reason that our ECUs might respond differently on different setups/ weather/ etc to this mod.
It was NOT rushed to market. I feel honored to be in the middle of this thing. I bought this car to mod it into a weapon.... and as fast as the market could support it. Im not interested in a flow chart. I wanted to see for myself what extra flow would do. It makes the car ******* faster, for longer. Thats what it does. The rest is just part of the challenge I guess.
Its been fun being on the front lines here.
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Thursday Ive got the whole afternoon blocked off at my shop. Dyno time, reinstall, more dyno time, tuning, etc...
Snow and sleet is on the forecast here in NC .... but Im supposed to check with them tomorrow as well. Either way, we'll find out soon.... and you all know im pretty damn verbose. I'll post my results
redrocketz
Member
Thursday Ive got the whole afternoon blocked off at my shop. Dyno time, reinstall, more dyno time, tuning, etc...
Snow and sleet is on the forecast here in NC .... but Im supposed to check with them tomorrow as well. Either way, we'll find out soon.... and you all know im pretty damn verbose. I'll post my results
feel free to call if you have ANY Questions/problems
mrlilguy157
Member
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- 07 mazdaspeed 3
Ditto
dadasracecar
Member
The lean spot is the whole reason I started the Optimum AFR for DI thread. BMWs seem to have the same thing except their tuners don't care and I don't think any of them are smart enough to care... Here are the examples:http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29708
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105342
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105080
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104489
I started the same thread at e90 forums and Shiv said you could run over stoic with DI!
In any event the lean hump at very low rpm was not fixed completely by the pump. It was lessened but I still get high 13s at 18 psi around 2700. It quickly drops to 12 but it's still there. The need for a pump was first identified by forrestang and ATL(IIRC) when they put 3071s on their cars and saw injPW doubling and FP dropping around 3.5-4K.
IMO the lean spot down low is just a function of DI technology. I haven't seen any Audi/VW dynos with AFR but the BMWs have one hell of a lean spot that would scare the hell out of me.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105342
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105080
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104489
I started the same thread at e90 forums and Shiv said you could run over stoic with DI!
In any event the lean hump at very low rpm was not fixed completely by the pump. It was lessened but I still get high 13s at 18 psi around 2700. It quickly drops to 12 but it's still there. The need for a pump was first identified by forrestang and ATL(IIRC) when they put 3071s on their cars and saw injPW doubling and FP dropping around 3.5-4K.
IMO the lean spot down low is just a function of DI technology. I haven't seen any Audi/VW dynos with AFR but the BMWs have one hell of a lean spot that would scare the hell out of me.
I'm still learning as much as I can about DI....
Obviously DI has a much higher detonation threshold than port injection, which is frankly the only reason I can figure Mazda bothered to go this route (other then them being on the eccentric side of car manufacturing). Since you are spraying the fuel in such a short window it is hard for it to detonate, and if it does, it occurs pretty much at the time normal combustion was supposed to happen anyways right?
The engine might be more tolerant of the lean condition, but max power is still falling in the 12ish:1 afr range because we are still burning gasoline here.
I wouldn't go as far to say the lean spot is a function of DI...just a lean spot in the fuel maps. For those of you with a tuning solution, did you pickup/lose any power by smoothing out the lean spot? Is that same spot there on stock Speed 3s?
dadasracecar
Member
I just looked at the dynos on the mrlilguy site. Not that impressed I have to say - minimal, if any, gains. There is enough error in a dyno from run to run to account for most, if not all, of the differences. Not that I got any gains from my pump either. The cdfp are only needed for big turbo guys that can't get the fuel they need - just like cp-e said - or if you have a faulty stock fuel pump.
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- 2007 MS3
It's more than just the short length of spraying time. The fuel being injected under such high pressure means that it has an extreme expansion rate when it enters the cylinder. This expansion absorbs residual heat in the cylinder, which is a major factor in the resistance to detonation. In addition, they aim the spray and time it in such a way that when the spark ignites it there is a much more uniform flame front, which further reduces detonation and increases the burn efficiency, which results in more power. That high pressure expansion also means that the gasoline atomizes (changes from liquid to a gaseous state) better, so you get a more consistent air/fuel mix, which again leads to a more even burn and uniform flame front, which means more power. All this resistance to detonation is what allows us to get away with high initial compression ratios and relatively high (for stock) boost pressures at the same time.
Pressures
Excellent response,thanks. Do you recall the high fuel pressure on line and at injectors? I thought these #s extreme but i've forgetten. Is this directly related to this DI application, mspeed 3 6?
Excellent response,thanks. Do you recall the high fuel pressure on line and at injectors? I thought these #s extreme but i've forgetten. Is this directly related to this DI application, mspeed 3 6?
Awesome info (headbang) Thanks!
the CDFP is a must have in my book. anyone who wants to mod should get one ? even if it adds nothing but a "safety net". the most important thing when tunig is having enough fuel to feed the fire . we have THE EXACT SAME PUMP the audi/VW guys have. the stock fuel pump is limited to 200hp @4k RPM.... if you are happy with that, then i guess you dont need one. me, on the other hand.... that simply wont do for me. where did i get this wonderful info you may ask ? it is right on the APR website. this is what they do....fuel pumps, there info is as accurate as its gonna get. the chart speaks for itself.
http://goapr.com/VW/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
http://goapr.com/VW/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
oskinosmee
Member
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- 07 mazdaspeed 3
I want one(nana)
