Your thoughts on the MS3 engine?

[Haltech]

I never understood why the honda boys took an engine meant for fuel economy and cheap transportation and proclaim it as a tuner car. It really makes me laugh and always have. The best races ive ever seen from imports were Nissan and Mazda. 13B anyone?

I was in my MS3 today and took it for a spin down PCH. I was involked by a new SI with Vtec stickers plastered all over it and an exhaust about 6 inches in diameter.. He came reving up on me... When we approached the light, he says he has Vtec... I told him, i have boost and waved bye bye to him when i roasted his ass on a 1300 RPM launch. Needless to say at the next light, there was silence and his window was rolled up in 95F weather.

If you want to learn about the engine on a MS3, theres lots of literature. However, the MS3/6 engine is more advanced than your vee-tech.

I goto the track often and never seen nor heard of a 500HP honda.. Everything import out there with balls is either a Nissan, Mazda, Toyota or Suburu. Hell, i even see 400 HP focus's out there. I do however see interesting races with Civics and Scion's.. Thats generally when i hit the snack bar.

 

[redspeed]

I goto the track often and never seen nor heard of a 500HP honda.. Everything import out there with balls is either a Nissan, Mazda, Toyota or Suburu. Hell, i even see 400 HP focus's out there. I do however see interesting races with Civics and Scion's.. Thats generally when i hit the snack bar.

Sorry, but there are 500+ hp hondas out there.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0700_1998_honda_civic_hatchback_turbocharged_import_car

Hondas can be fast with the right set of mods. But I still love my ms3.

 

[jeffmsp]

you can make any car fast. there are good hondas. my friend daves built+sleeved gsr civic w t3t4 smokes me everytime. Of course thats with $15,000 worth of internals, huge axles(hondas drawback is the stock axles) turbo components and labour. Anything is fast with money thrown at it. Especially when you are starting with a nice motor like the 2.3 DISI or a K20(though I would never buy one as you can get used mazda motors just as good for like $500 as I was stating before, but again its just preference)

But ya hondas are fine, mazdas are fine there are no "best" engines, just different approaches to the same objective. im pretty sure everyone is arguing about in the first place was the guys friends inaccurate information.

Its nice to compare engines though.

 

[MS3ICA]

thier are good hondas but the ms3 engine with its power torque, effect"sport" , racing" factor has got to be on of th coolest engines out there

 

[Haltech]

Sorry, but there are 500+ hp hondas out there.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0700_1998_honda_civic_hatchback_turbocharged_import_car

Hondas can be fast with the right set of mods. But I still love my ms3.

Well, they dont exist at any socal tracks. Maybe they make special appearances... (ugh)

 

[knowledge007]

Ahh you guys are pointless to argue with.. The MS3 comes stock with a snail and all of a sudden you guys think you own a vastly superior car.

I don't need to 'grow a backbone'. I'm a scrawny 18 year old hiding behind a computer, there are no 'backbones' to grow on the internet.

And I'm not getting defensive about my SI, I started this thread to learn more about the MS3 engine and somehow you guys turned it into a MS3 vs Civic SI engine thread. So yeah..

And lets not pretend the only reason the Civic is a tuner's choice car is because they're plentiful. I see corollas, proteges and mazda3s EVERYWHERE, yet if you try and turbo a mazda3, you have what, 1 choice? Why? Because it's just not the choice for the tuning crowd.

If you don't understand what I was trying to say, then a forum is not the place for you. Take your scrawny little 18 year old ass and your SI and go back to your crappy honda forums with the rest of the scrawny 18 year olds hiding behind there computers.

 

[tsunami]

well this thread hasn't gotton as far out of control as i thought it would after reading through but keep it civil guys am leaving it alone as nothing is really that bad... lets try and keep the conversation civil...

 

[clos561]

the thing with hondas is they dont need much hp to run fast quarter mile times...u get a stripped down honda with 250 to the wheels and ur gonna hit 12's..insides all gutted out with one seat in one of the smallest hatches ever made will definitely give you a advantage in quarter mile...i dont know if its gonna help you get pussy or not but i highly doubt it.

 

[fourthmeal]

the thing with hondas is they dont need much hp to run fast quarter mile times...u get a stripped down honda with 250 to the wheels and ur gonna hit 12's..insides all gutted out with one seat in one of the smallest hatches ever made will definitely give you a advantage in quarter mile...i dont know if its gonna help you get pussy or not but i highly doubt it.

And we all know what really matters, don't we?!

LOL my wife laughed hard at this quote.

 

[grazzmaster]

The MS3 engine was surprisingly smooth, but I haven't driven a newer 4cyl in a while. I really don't have anything to compare it to, but it was smooth and powerful. I didn't feel any surges or lags in the power, but I'd only taken it on a test drive. I'm saving for an '08 MS3. My old man just bought an '08 R32....that's 6cyl normally aspirated, 250hp, and awd. Honestly, aside from the DSG auto trans, it doesn't have a smoother accelerating engine. I would rather drive the manual on the MS3 as the auto on the VW still feels vague, even though it's one of the best shifting trannies out there. To complete the shifting experience on the MS3, I would upgrade the rear motor mounts, the shifter bushing, and get a balanced TWM short-shift kit - all for about $400. MS3 engine had bawls at such a low RPM and just pulls so strongly. The honda and nissan engines if driven int the past don't have the sheer power, but they wind up so seamlessly to their high redlines - more like electric motors. I'd rather feel power and that grunt, than watch the tach slowly climb to 8500k before shifting. Can't wait to get my Mazda!

 

[grazzmaster]

And we all know what really matters, don't we?!

LOL my wife laughed hard at this quote.

Ditto....we're still laughing. Lil' rice buckets!

 

[Sveivo]

I want a VTEC head swapped on my Protege...with some JDM cams. Can you say "chick magnet"? (whip)

 

[jeffmsp]

, but they wind up so seamlessly to their high redlines - more like electric motors

actually electric motor can deliver 100% power at any rpm, thats what makes them good. Torque monsters. -see tesla roadster..

 

[AllLostThings]

The SI was on my list of cars to get but when looking at $ to power ratio it would have been a foolish choice to say the least. I happily blow by every Civic SI i see now..

 

[I vtec do you?]

I'm done defending the SI engine in this thread. I didn't make this to compare an N/A 4-cyl versus a Turbo 4-cyl.

At the guy who apparently found and roasted an SI.. I call BS. Kinda coincidental you for one happened to find an SI just sitting at a redlight.. plastered with VTEC stickers (There are TWO on the car.. if you call that plastered), and then he happened to stick his head out the window and talk about VTEC? Please man, no one does that. Keep your little made up stories to yourself. I already know the MS3 is faster, I don't need a story from you to confirm it.

Anyways, I winged by a mazda dealer again today and checked out the MS3 again. And when I say 'winged by', I mean I took an hour and a half drive to the nearest Mazda dealer to check it out.

Does anyone know what would be invovled in changing whatever it was you all were talking about to make more power up top? I love the mid-range grunt, but I'm also a semi-honda boy at heart and I do love some top-end as well and I was displeased to see how much the power dropped off up top. What would be involved in changing this and how much?

The salesman I was talking to said I would also get excellent value on my trade-in because they absolutely love getting civics in since they're always an easy sale. I didn't have time to get it appraised but he said to expect not to lose much at all from the initial cost, so I remain hopeful yet.

Right now they're telling me 22,095 is the best they can do on a base MS3.

 

[aaronc7]

I got mine for 200 over invoice. it was an 07 and 08s were close to coming out so maybe it was easier for me to get a good deal...but it can be done. From what I've seen....CAI helps in giving some power on the top end. But really there is only so much you can do if the computer is gonna start closing the throttle on you. It seems like CAI, and a better TMIC are common and easy mods that help get quite a bit more power. I've only got the CAI so far and it definitely makes a different in power and sound.

 

[grazzmaster]

Does anyone know what would be invovled in changing whatever it was you all were talking about to make more power up top? I love the mid-range grunt, but I'm also a semi-honda boy at heart and I do love some top-end as well and I was displeased to see how much the power dropped off up top. What would be involved in changing this and how much?

I'd say, get used to using the low-end. If the power's on early, then use your slick-ass six speed to keep it there....sounds like FUN to me! If you're wanting more power on top, then I've heard the XEDE system works well, but it's $1000 approx and will need to be spliced-in, but it's not rocket science. I AM NOT AN EXPERT, NOR A MAZDA OWNER (yet) SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW...but I've read up a little. After wou've installed the XEDE system, it changes the fuel/air ratios and the timing and can get you more power and less of a dramatic power-loss at higher RPM. The XEDE will also (correct me if I'm wrong) adjust to any future mods, taking the full advantage of them. Turbo-Back, or even a Cat-Back exhaust will probably allow for a little flatter power band. Heck, why not throw on a TMIC and remove the balance-shafts while your at it.

Crap man, the friggin car's FAST. I've read more reviews saying the car's TOO powerful. How can you be "dissatisfied" with that? You've driven it too, so you know....you just need to shift sooner. Just cause the redline's at 6500K or whatever, doesn't mean you've got to take it there to be fast.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Does anyone know what would be invovled in changing whatever it was you all were talking about to make more power up top? I love the mid-range grunt, but I'm also a semi-honda boy at heart and I do love some top-end as well and I was displeased to see how much the power dropped off up top. What would be involved in changing this and how much?

From what I understand the ECU itself closes the throttle plate up top and right now it's pretty hard to defeat it. Cobb's accessport might finally be able to do it but that's months away. Anyway why don't you get the car and learn to drive it first before thinking ten steps ahead? There's no need for this car to be wound up that high - NONE!! You really need to let go of that vtec mentality. Also, isn't having to rev high for power one of the primary reasons for wanting to get rid of your car in the first place?

 

[aaronc7]

Just look at the powerband from 3k to about 6k. same difference with the Si which is like what... 6k to 8K? the ratios of the gears match its powerband pretty well I think

 

[Haltech]

I'm done defending the SI engine in this thread. I didn't make this to compare an N/A 4-cyl versus a Turbo 4-cyl.

At the guy who apparently found and roasted an SI.. I call BS. Kinda coincidental you for one happened to find an SI just sitting at a redlight.. plastered with VTEC stickers (There are TWO on the car.. if you call that plastered), and then he happened to stick his head out the window and talk about VTEC? Please man, no one does that. Keep your little made up stories to yourself. I already know the MS3 is faster, I don't need a story from you to confirm it.

Anyways, I winged by a mazda dealer again today and checked out the MS3 again. And when I say 'winged by', I mean I took an hour and a half drive to the nearest Mazda dealer to check it out.

Does anyone know what would be invovled in changing whatever it was you all were talking about to make more power up top? I love the mid-range grunt, but I'm also a semi-honda boy at heart and I do love some top-end as well and I was displeased to see how much the power dropped off up top. What would be involved in changing this and how much?

The salesman I was talking to said I would also get excellent value on my trade-in because they absolutely love getting civics in since they're always an easy sale. I didn't have time to get it appraised but he said to expect not to lose much at all from the initial cost, so I remain hopeful yet.

Right now they're telling me 22,095 is the best they can do on a base MS3.

Than youre living in denial man if you honestly believe an SI is going to give me a good race. Yes, he riced out his car as amazing as it sounds. Every fricken honda around here is riced out.

Yep, i just make up stories. I have YET to see ANY honda out here put up a decents race. Ever heard of torque? You will if you get a MS3 and mod it my friend. Stop living in your honda fantasy world of real power and join the forced inducted club.