Official 'Smoking Turbo' response from Mazda

[ericrapp]

Yes i suggest that you have another shop that you can go to and trust for a straight answer. There are a couple tests that they can do to figure this out, and probably worth the price as compared to motor replacement. Funkytuqe is right. Please ask for test results that prove the motor is the culprit. Sounds sketchy from what you have said.
If you only smoke blue after idling with a hot motor it's prolly turbo.
The good news may be that i just had one rebuilt by a diesel shop. And it was not that expensive and is like new or better. So there is hope for you. I do not know what it costs to have the labor of removing and reinstalling because i just handed them the turbo. Got it back in two weeks.
If you find out it's is the turbo it's gonna be a lot less painful to rebuild then replace it. Or the motor!
I hope the motor is not gone though. Seriously i hope you can find a good performance shop who will tell you what is really going on.
Let us know how you make out. The K04 is a simple rebuild for the most part for one who knows and has the tools.
Ps. Moderators? do we have a "how to" for turbo removal and re install for folks yet?

 

[briar]

well it got even worse today.. I went to the dealer to pick up my car as I don't want them touching my engine; and they tried to invoice me $600 for the labor of running all the diagnostics that Mazda Canada ordered before approving (or denying as the case may be) my warranty claim.. Obviously I refuse to pay for the diagnostics as I didn't authorize any of them and it was Mazda who told them to do it.. Apparantly the mechanic disassembled my engine and determined the cylinder and block needed replacing yet I still haven't been given any sort of reason why and the service advisor didn't really know anything when I questioned him.. I'm going to go back tomorrow and talk to the Service Manager about it (he wasn't onsite when I was there).. I've also written a letter to the mazda canada regional office to complain and find out whats going on..

at this point I'm so pissed I'm ready to just get rid of the car and go buy something else..

 

[ericrapp]

This is getting ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that they would invest that amount of labor into it without your OK. You have done the write thing to write the regional office and hope you get a decent response. Just so you are aware my Mazda dealership experience has been very good, so i dont think it's Mazda in general. I hope. Hang in there!

 

[funkytuqe]

Wow, that is terrible. Hope you get it figured out man! Things to ask the service manager, why did they open up the motor? Did it fail a compression test that would lead them to diagnose by removing the head? What were the exact steps taken to identify the fail mode and what is the fail mode?
Also, for clarity, what exactly were your smoking symptoms? Smoking all the time or just under long idle?

Just for informations sake. When i had my turbo replaced under the warranty extension program, the total cost of turbo replacement was around $2800 (canadian dollars), the turbo its self was about $1000 (Canadian). All covered by Mazda of coarse. I had to get it done twice becasue the first time the retards at my dealer installed the CX7 turbo, so always reference check the part numbers just in case...

 

[briar]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the support you're giving me.. I went back today and talked to the service manager.. I finally got some real information rather than the half-truths that the service 'advisor' was feeding me.. So they didn't open the engine as the advisor told me. What they actually did was run both a compression test and leak down test and both tests did show issues with the #3 cylinder. The service manager seems genuinely nice about the whole thing and has waived all the fee's they were going to charge me. He is going to talk to Mazda Canada to see if he can still get them to replace the turbo under warranty. At this point it's not clear if the issue is actually due to the turbo or not.. I only noticed the smoke after idling for 5-10 minutes and then subsequently for the next 15 seconds or so after driving away from that idle period.. I drove the car straight to the dealer immediately after having that smoking episode (there was a LOT of smoke so I was quite concerned) and didn't have any more smoking during that drive (15 minutes or so).

 

[ericrapp]

Well glad you are talking with someone reasonable. The leakdown and compression are the right way to check a for bad valve or rings. Did you get the spread sheet with the data? From your description it sounds strongly like turbo is the culprit though. Seems like you are doing all the right things. good luck and keep us posted.

 

[8.5MS3]

when you get the car back do the following

1. go buy a compression test kit, its like 20 bucks or something, you can get it at any car parts store - https://www.google.com/#q=compressi....,cf.osb&fp=26a1bebd406df936&biw=1680&bih=935

2. Invite a mechanically inclined friend over

3. drive around for 20 minutes to ensure the engine gets fully up to temp

3. crack some beers and rip the IC off and plugs out as fast as possible

4. insert compression test kit into a cylinder, floor the gas, and crank the motor over until the needle stops moving up (friend comes in handy holding and looking at the gauge

5. repeat for other 3 cylinders and write it down

Compression should be anywhere from 160-200 depending on miles (more miles = more wear = less compression) I did a test at 35k at sea level and had 185-190 across the board

if you get something like 170-185-130-175 then the 3rd cylinder is indeed shot and the rings need to be replaced. at which point you can build a forged motor if you wish

people have bent a rod and replaced that single rod/piston and honed the cylinder over a weekend. it can be done if you know what you are doing

best of luck

Also, are you still within the powertrain warranty period? if so a new motor should be yours per the warranty.

 

[ericrapp]

8.5. you are a good man. A good and helping forum brother.
And Briar, he knows what he speaks.
If you are not comfortable with the work involved we could walk you through it. Quite a few nuts to undo, and a couple clamps to loosen will get you to the spark plugs and 4 coil packs. we have a parts chain called Advance Auto in Rochester new york that loans those tools for a deposit that is fully refunded upon return?
Sometimes i prefer to leave certain work to the techs though if it's too scary for me.
But i hope all goes well with the dealer and dilemna is resolved.
Do you have any metric wrenches ? just in case : )

 

[funkytuqe]

Yes, good idea guys. Briar, if you can change a spark plug, then you can do a compression test. Go to Canadian Tire, they loan tools. Ask at the parts counter to loan a compression tester, they will make you pay up front for it and then refund you when you return it. If you don't have a Canadian Tire close to you then call around to your local auto parts stores, 8.5 is right they are not very expensive. I do advise against buying the cheapest compression tester though, i bought a cheap one once and it didn't work right. The important things to know is that the motor must be at operating temp to do the test, so as mentioned above you have to drive around for 10-15 minutes and then quickly open remove the inter-cooler, packs and spark plugs. The second, is that you must perform the test under wide open throttle, so plug the tester into the spark plug hole and crank the engine while holding your foot to the floor. Do this for each cylinder, start with #3 (because that is the suspect), then do the other cylinders and go back to #3 again for verification. Write down the numbers as you go. If your uncomfortable with this, ask a friend who is good with cars. Either way, you need to get a second opinion/verification check.

For what it's worth, i think you have a bad turbo (based on your symptoms) but you might have a very hard time to get it replaced if there are other issues with the engine, that's just the way auto manufactures work and rightfully so...

 

[briar]

Do you have any metric wrenches ? just in case : )

I'm Canadian; so I definitely have Metric wrenches...

My friend's dad actually offered to do a compression test for me (he rebuilt old muscle car) so I trust him.. I've been doing a lot of reading, and I definitely feel I'm mechanically inclined enough that I could do it myself, but always good to have someone watching over.. I do have one question about it though; I've read you should disable the fuel injectors so they aren't spraying fuel into the cyclinders during the test... Is this required, and how do you go about doing this on the MS6?

Drove the car home from the dealer yesterday and didn't have any issues (no smoking etc..).. They did kill my battery though so we had to jump start it, and it's now dead again (I guess I didn't drive enough to fully charge it)..

 

[8.5MS3]

i made a mistake in my original to do list

if you have a low cylinder, add a teaspoon of oil and retest that cylinder, if the pressure rises to normal levels, then its the rings. if it doesnt then its the valves

flooring the throttle while turning over disables the fuel injectors on our cars

 

[ericrapp]

and dont forget to pick up some mechanics gloves, some of the parts get darn hot even on a warm up.
Sounds like you have found some one who will be good help while you are working on it That's great!
Plus you already have found some awesome help here. Things are looking up a little i hope.
eric

 

[briar]

I ran a compression test last night, and sure enough there does seem to be an issue with the #3 cylinder..
I had 170-180psi on cyl's 1,2,4; and only about 120psi on cylinder 3.. Still waiting to hear back if Mazda will replace my turbo anyway..

Oh and I found that when the dealer put the intercooler back on they only put 1 out of the 3 bolts back in, and a second one was sheared off completely. Morons..

I've been driving the car for a few days now and no re-occurrance of the white smoke; and I don't notice any ill-effects from the weak cylinder; so maybe I'll just keep driving it as is

I'll start a thread in the engine forum about maybe rebuilding this engine..

 

[ericrapp]

Well at least you know what you got now. Awful nice you got some one who could help you. Your Dad must be alright to have friends like him.
Take pictures of any damage done and note dead battery. just put in a file for now. Mechanics who hack stuff up need to be put on notice. I am not sure how old you are but my kids are in there 20s. I have seen them get abused. and i have had some nasty experiences in my time and been taken advantage of. It is key in life to find a mechanic who you can trust with your baby. And as you are already doing, learning what you can pick up from guys who have the experience. That might incline you to start wrenching a bit more yourself. I am trying things i never would have before and learning as i go. I
am taking off my Corksport TBE right now and replacing my turbo etc slowly. One of the first BIG things i did when i got the 07 Speedster in 08, was replace the whole exhaust by myself on jackstands. Now that i am under there again, i am thinking wow i really did this by myself back then. I was a little proud.
sorry for the wandering.\ Did you guys decide whether it was valve or piston ring? what did the # 3 plug look like as compared to the rest. It should be a little fouled even with iridium and may need gentle cleaning or replacement.
I suppose this posting is about closed so best of luck from us Briar!

 

[briar]

just a quick update.. I've got a shop fixing my engine now.. They are replacing the piston rings and valves.. They said the pistons are in good shape. They found the oil control rings on one cylinder were trashed and the valves weren't in great shape either.. So while they've got the engine apart they're replacing them all.. The shop did report quite a bit of oil in the intake which they said could only be coming from the turbo. They are reconditioning the head and honing the cylinders as well.. Total cost for parts / labour around $3000 cdn.. (its high but beats the $7500 the dealer wanted)..

Spoke with the mazda service manager again this morning and he said to bring it back in next week once the engine is repaired and they'll go back to mazda canada to try to get the turbo replaced again under warranty.. I asked him for a quote to replace it if they don't do it under warranty and they quoted $2080 for parts plus 7 hours of labour @99$/hour.. Seems a bit high when I could get a BNR stage1 turbo for $900.. What other parts might I need as well; he said the 2080 included the turbo, studs, and nuts.. Looking at the parts diagram there are also a few gaskets maybe I should replace.. Has anyone replaced a turbo themselves and can tell me what all I should be looking for?

 

[ericrapp]

thats a question i would to know answer too. i have my intake out and my downpipe disconnected. i am going to replace boost solenoid and reference lines. but i am also probably going to take off exhaust manifold for a looksee since i am this close already.
Glad you are making such progress. Briar i got my turbo rebuilt for less than 300 bucks by a very reputable shop, The replaced vanes , balanced and cleaned up to better than new. Also new thermal coating for hot side. Let me know if you are interested. This company is pretty big and very reputable. if you wish i can get you contact # and the website info. took about 3 weeks but i told them no hurry. The Ko4 is designed to be rebuilt cheaply and regularly. so buying a new one might not be the best way to go unless its fully covered. But getting it out is pretty labor intense for a newbie like me.cheers!

 

[mitchq1]

So here's my story... About a year ago, I noticed smoke coming out the exhaust while idling at a traffic light. I went to the dealership and they installed a "vent", explaining to me that this would allow the oil to flow back to where it was supposed to (as you can tell, I'm not really familiar with how the oil flows in this engine). There was no charge for that. I went back to the dealership for regular oil changes. Last week, the same thing happened. I went back to the dealership, and they kept my CX7, and got the okay to replace the turbo from Mazda. They wais that I would have to pay for a "pipe" that is not covered, aparently this "pipe" is all full of sludge. That will cost me about $220. I have read 20 of the 35 pages of posts in this thread, and I have not gotten to the part where it says that Mazda has come up with a solution to the pcv flaw that is at the root of the turbo issue. Is the "vent" that they installed in my car last year the fix? Why is my car smoking still? Will the new turbo suffer the same fate as the old one?