Please read, CIA vs K&N...

Humm, intersting. I'll be hacking a Honda intake and shoving my cone filter into the headlight. If it works out then no CAI, but if it doesnt then I look further into the CAI.


(drinks) (boobs), BUT NO (flame) ing here!

:cool:
 
Greg said:
you gotta do what makes you happy!!
Click to expand...

It think this is the key here. I'm sure you could get Corey's kit to work nicely...and it's pretty spiff. Just make sure you get a heat shield for it (i think he may have been working on one...I forget)
As for the IC...I'm just gonna figure out a way to cool the thing...full time (well...with an on/off switch). Still trying to figure out how...but I should be able to do it. I am an engineer... :D

And for the record...I'm buying the INJEN...it's just my cup o' tea. I like the way it looks (probably powdercoat it) and the direct path it takes to the turbo. As for performance...we'll see when it's in.
 
Man! We need to resolve this!

Facts:

K&N stock location = some loss of HP & torque
INJEN CAI = ~ 10 WHP gain (taking this with a grain of salt)

My conclusions from the above is that the K&N does add power but is negated more by the hot air from IC. The Injen CAI gains power from colder air and direct wider path to turbo. Stock tubes probably heat up the air pretty good too as it's loop is long and located right beside the engine itself.

Now we just need someone to dyno a MSP with a K&N with a heatshield located right behind the left head light or better yet, in the well just below like the Injen.

This would tell us how much power is resulted from cold air itself and how much from a better direct air path (and cooler air as a result also)
 
I'm going to cut a hole in my hood and send the filter protruding 3 feet out into the air and when it rains, Ill duct tape a chipmunk umbrella to it to avoid hydro lock.

Beat that ladies!


:rolleyes:
 
Time for my $0.02, I did the dyno run with the stock box, and the K&N. My HP stayed the same, but the torque dropped off bad. By as much as 10 ft lbs. All because of the location of the filter, which is right behind the cooling fan for the a/c condensor/radiator/intercooler (ill never understand why they put a frikin fan right behind the intercooler) you can also see where the cooling fan kicked on right around 5.2k rpms.

Remember all, this is a turbo car. Aside from what my dyno graph shows, an SRI, done properly, with heat shield, will benefit a car more-so then a cold air intake. A turbo car WANTS air, and wants it fast, a CAI is anywhere from 12-15 inches longer then an SRI, and have a few more bends in them. The benefit of the "denser" air from outside the car is a mute point when dealing with a boosted car. Its moveing air, and moving it fast. An SRI gets the air to the turbo faster, thus letting more volume of air get to the t/b, thus also bringing down lag time. REmember also, the intercooler does bring the temps BACK down to ambient air temps, AFTER the turbo heats the air up to its internal temps.
 
EXACTLY! Hence a full time IC chilling system which I'm planning out would rule..or so I think (we'll see if I can do it w/o f'n up the entire engine efficiency). However...if you're running the stock Turbo at higher boost, the colder outside air will increase it's efficiency. At normal boost, you'll never notice that minor spool-up differential...but the higher you go with (as spoolin's site calls it) the "T25 pea-shooter" the colder you want that intake air.
 
So I went and got the Maximum Boost book Ive heard so much about and read the whole thing last night. Fascinating piece of work it is. :)

Now I don't pretend to be a car wizard by any stretch, but according to the book, ambient air temperature is a critical variable in determining the efficiency of the system.

Higher ambient temperatures equal higher absolute temperatures and it is this absolute temperature that gets heated by the compressor discharge. So if it is 80F outside, and the compressor discharge is 200F, the temperatures exiting the compressor will equal 280F. The 200F does not consume the 80F, it is acted upon by it. Raising the ambient temperature to 120F (under the hood) will result in a 320F discharge from the compressor.

Further, the intercooler will only cool the charge by a percentage of the difference in temperature between the outside ambient temperature (acting on the surface of the IC) and the absolute temperature of the charge. A 60% efficiency IC on an 80F day will only cool 60% of 240F in the 320F charge.

To simplify: (320F - 80F) X 60% = 144F. Thus creating an absolute charge temperature of 176F. If the ambient temperature were taken from outside the absolute temperature of the charge would be 160F.

Now, I don't know what a 16F temperature change would fell like, but from an efficiency standpoint a CAI will benefit a turbo application. And all that says nothing for the enhanced airflow of a larger intake pipe with less bends and lower thermal conductivity from stainless
 
Vapor said:
So I went and got the Maximum Boost book Ive heard so much about and read the whole thing last night. Fascinating piece of work it is. :)

Now I don't pretend to be a car wizard by any stretch, but according to the book, ambient air temperature is a critical variable in determining the efficiency of the system.

Higher ambient temperatures equal higher absolute temperatures and it is this absolute temperature that gets heated by the compressor discharge. So if it is 80F outside, and the compressor discharge is 200F, the temperatures exiting the compressor will equal 280F. The 200F does not consume the 80F, it is acted upon by it. Raising the ambient temperature to 120F (under the hood) will result in a 320F discharge from the compressor.

Further, the intercooler will only cool the charge by a percentage of the difference in temperature between the outside ambient temperature (acting on the surface of the IC) and the absolute temperature of the charge. A 60% efficiency IC on an 80F day will only cool 60% of 240F in the 320F charge.

To simplify: (320F - 80F) X 60% = 144F. Thus creating an absolute charge temperature of 176F. If the ambient temperature were taken from outside the absolute temperature of the charge would be 160F.

Now, I don't know what a 16F temperature change would fell like, but from an efficiency standpoint a CAI will benefit a turbo application. And all that says nothing for the enhanced airflow of a larger intake pipe with less bends and lower thermal conductivity from stainless
Click to expand...

YES! That's what I'm talking about! Colder IS better!

Peace...(hippy)
 
Thank you very much!

I knew all that knowledge Ive gained tricking out my 10 or so past turbo cars has to count for something.

HOT AIR = LESS POWER ..
COOL AIR = SYSTEM EFICIENCY WHICH = MORE HP!


(headbang)
 
Last edited:
let's strap on a small, high powered desktop fan to the front end of our intakes...lol Blowing air into the intake. :)
 
a "turbocharged" turbo according to this ^ lol

i am gonna get the CAI and soon(yay!). the reason there were stalling problems was because the stock bpv was empying right next to the maf. this caused turbulance in the maf housing. occasionally the turbulance would cause a vaccume at the maf sensor. the maf would read 'no air' and cut all fuel. they have since moved the recirc fitting on the cai away from the maf. now there is no more vaccume and no more stalling. :D
 
that sounds nice, I have not experienced the stalling yet, but definitely that damn hesitation! If it is hot out, my car will lost almost all acceleration at around 3000rpm. It literally will sit at a certain rpm level with my foot to the floor. F'kin fuel map
 
How about a peltier element? Think about it...that would cool the system, full time from one side so you still get airflow onto it. You'd need a good powersupply, though...and I wouldn't want to run it that cold in the winter. I need to figure something out that can be used at all times...or something that's adjustable. hehe...just have a thermostat like in your house installed in the gauge piller...that'd be funny...

Ok enough thinking out loud...I think we all get the point.
More Air = Good
Colder Charge Air = Good
More Air + Cold Charge Air = Better

This ends the bogus mathematical proof...go and have a one. And make sure it's cold...
 
Heres what you need to do right here, I'm doing it so don't copy me for at least a month or so okay? ;)


1. Get rid of the stock intake plumbing alltogether.

2. Put the money for that CAI aside cause you're not gonna need that, just about another 700 dollars.

3. Get the DGMotorsports C/F hood with the IMSA air inlet right above the drivers headlight, or hell make your own and be cheap.

4. Strap on the shortest ******* piece of metal and a cone filter and strap it on the turbo. I'm talking like a 4 inch long piece of straight pipe. Have the damn thing powder coated so it looks nice.

You are NEVER going to TRULY get cold air in from under the hood, I DON'T CARE if the damn filter is making sparks off the concrete. The best way you are going to get some more power is old Detroit Iron tactics. RAM AIR man! It works, its proven old school s*** that can work. You put your CAI on and I strap my hood and short ram on and I bet I'll make more power than any CAI.

The best part is all the parts are available. AEM make a short ram for the MSP, the hood is available and its easy as hell to install.

Oh, and get one of these too.

Just my 2 cents, I'l dyno my results when I get a chance to not work.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2419517170

I really stoned, so don't bug me about my incorrect english FOOLZ! I am a 733T Hax0r!
 
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