Need some neg vamber and more caster!!

[Micaspeed!]

I really feel the MSP in stock form needs some neg camber and more caster for ax and hot street driving. This is a requisit for turning in a front driver. I have loked at my front tire outside edges and can clearly see the need for the above.

Iam still learning the tricks to fornt wheel drive cars, but we racers need to do something abouot the adjustments without going full coil over and such. I am trying to get stock MSP spring rates to see what the baseline is . I understand they opted for a big bar, somewhat soft spring set up. I have done a lot of rear drive suspensions for race BMW and Mercedes (www.delsingmotorsport.com) and will see what I can come up with. First ax next week!

Godspeed!
Dave

 

[scapamouche]

There's no way to get much more of EITHER without camber plates or slotting mount holes. This is a known problem with the Protege, and has caused many problems with stock class autocrossers...

If you look at the upper mounts for the front struts, there should be a little yellow or red dot on one spot on the mount. That shows where the offset bushing is oriented. On my MSP it was originally at about the 2 O'clock position looked at from the front of the car on the drivers side, and 10 O'clock on passenger side. There are four possible positions for that offset, and by placing the offset to the 5 and 7 O'clock positions for driver and passenger respectively, I was able to get an extra 1/2 degree of caster, but no more camber. My final numbers were -.8 deg oc camber and 2.7 deg of caster in front, and -1 deg of camber in the back. Toe is fully adjustible, though. I'm set for 1/16" total toe OUT in front and rear, and it's much better than the crappy alignment the car had from Mazda (the PDI was NOT done properly in my case....)

That's about it, I'm afraid....

 

[dmitrik4]

what he said.

good luck...

 

[Micaspeed!]

Thanks guys, anybody try the "camber bolt" where you replace one of the strut to hub carrier bolts?

Godspeed!
Dave

 

[dolphin]

Micaspeed,
Depending on the rules that you are running under that may not be legal for your class. The BMW's use use them to get more negative camber for autocrossing and they work well. This was possible since BMW had them listed in their shop manual to fix car that could not otherwise be properly aligned. I don't know if the same is true for the Protege.

To avoid problems, on the MP3, I just had them get what they could and let it go with that. It helped but it is not a cure.

 

[MikeBlueP5]

Ive got a set of new camber/caster plates, made by ground control sitting right here next to me on my desk, needing to be sold. I am asking $285, I paid over 300 for them shipped from flyin miata. Lemme know if you can use them.
Mike

 

[scapamouche]

Thanks guys, anybody try the "camber bolt" where you replace one of the strut to hub carrier bolts?

Godspeed!
Dave

Not on my MSP, but they worked GREAT on my Celica: I just swapped one bolt on each side and got an extra .75deg of camber.

There is some dispute over the BMWs, though. AS I recall, it is no longer OK for them to use camber bolts..... not sure, though.

They are listed in the Celica shop manual so that was my rationale for using them. I think they are about the only way you'll get any more camber out of the protege short of camber plates or slotting...

 

[cjstringer]

The are no camber/crash bolts listed for the MP3, and I doubt there are for the MSP either. If you want to run stock, go to an alignment shop and tell them to get teh most out of it that they can, and if you AX a lot, try for 1/8in toe out on each side. (total 1/4in) that should help a lot.
I ran with the STOC Ksettings all last year, 1deg POSITIVE camber and 1/8in toe IN all year. I didn't know crap about cars until I was on this board. Didn't hurt me that bad. I took a regional title (class and overall) and third place in class in another region.
Good luck! I'll be getting my alignment next week. Hope they can fix this crappy stock setup.

 

[scapamouche]

That's a LOT of toe out! I wouldn't run that much on a street car myself because of tire wear issues. I've gone with a total of 1/16" toe OUT both front and rear, and the car seems much improved over the stock settings (which were NOT the specified settings since my dealer is a pack of utter morons who didn't do the PDI alignment the way they were supposed to....)

 

[dmitrik4]

i'm heading in to get my ES's alignment fixed since this winter's potholes seem to have taken their toll. does anyone have any advice on the specs to which i should have it set?

from what i have gathered here and other places, the best way to go (read: best way to get the car to rotate more) would be 1/8" total toe-out front and rear (1/16" on each side), about -.8 deg front, -1 deg rear camber and 2.7 deg of caster in front.

b/c of budget constraints, my only planned mod is a set of stock 16x6" wheels and some Kumho Ecsta V700s (probably 205/45/R16).