ECU Fuel Mapping

[GI-]

Did anyone else read the thread here about the RX-8's dyno runs? The reason I ask is beacuse about half way down on the first page there is a quote from member 'ZoomZoomH' saying


"Let me clear some things up.

I've been following that thread closely, there were 3 RX-8s (all are 6 speeds) that were dyno'd, and all 3 returned whp ranging from 178-185 hp.

one of the dynos also mapped the A/F mixture ratio during the run, and Paul Yaw (www.yawpower.com), one of the best known rotary tuner in the country, took a look at the A/F mapping and said most likely the ECU is running the car overly rich at high rpm, to protect it for the first few thousand miles.

If you read that thread carefully, there was also an example where someone scanned a page in the factory service manual of a 2nd gen RX-7, and it showed that the ECU will switch to a new fuel mapping AFTER 20,000 miles.

basically, the RX-8s are essentially running in 'break-in mode' until a certain mileage has been reached, and then hello full power."





Now my question is this...

...does anyone else think that there is some validity to the part about the ECU switching to a new fuel map after 20,000 miles? Because I am thinking that if this is true, then maybe they did the same thing with our beloved MSP...

 

[funnylittlman]

Good Idea, but I doubt it

 

[GI-]

Good Idea, but I doubt it

I kinda doubt it too, but I don't know what our service manual actually says about this stuff, cuz I have had mine on order for months and have yet to hear from anyone else who has ordered one that they have received theirs.

 

[changedman]

i dont think so, a rotary must be broken in very carefully from what i've heard.. correct me if im wrong.

rotary=much different than IC engines

 

[GI-]

i dont think so, a rotary must be broken in very carefully from what i've heard.. correct me if im wrong.

rotary=much different than IC engines

I am sure you are right, but I just see it as too much of a coincidence that Mazda is coming out with new cars (i.e. Mazdaspeed, RX-8 etc...) that are running way too rich on accident. What I mean is why would they design a car or cars to run this rich without reason other than it being for their protection and ours (for warranty reasons), even though this is not an optimum fuel map for our vehicles.

 

[jroof]

I doubt it. If that were the case, you'd think that the response from Mazda NA that boostisgood is getting would be to say that's it's a non-issue. I don't think they'd be working on an update if the ECU were to change a few miles down the road.

 

[GI-]

I doubt it. If that were the case, you'd think that the response from Mazda NA that boostisgood is getting would be to say that's it's a non-issue. I don't think they'd be working on an update if the ECU were to change a few miles down the road.

Yeah, you may be right, I just thought it was interesting.

 

[David MPS]

I doubt it. If that were the case, you'd think that the response from Mazda NA that boostisgood is getting would be to say that's it's a non-issue. I don't think they'd be working on an update if the ECU were to change a few miles down the road.

How can you be sure that the rep he(boostisgood) talked to knew what he was talking about ???

Its in Japan where all the engineers are. I think that the engineers are the only ones to decide .

 

[Kenetix]

There really is a break-in mode built into the ecu. If you go to www.nopistons.com you can read up on it in the rx-8 forum.
I'm waiting on a reply from Paul Yaw about the rich mapping.

 

[jroof]

How can you be sure that the rep he(boostisgood) talked to knew what he was talking about ???

Its in Japan where all the engineers are. I think that the engineers are the only ones to decide .

I can't be sure. But this is an email he recieved. It seems like a pretty legitimate source:

As promised, I want to give you a brief update on where we are at
concerning the issue you raised with the MAZDASPEED Proteg.

First, you should know that there are at least 15 individuals involved
in this matter now, including executive-level quality and engineering
people. We have begun weekly conference calls with everyone to ensure
progress is made. Second, we fully understand your concern, and are
working on a recalibration of the control module (the brain) for the
optimum resolution. We expect to begin testing the recalibration in
August.

I will give you another update by the end of August (or sooner if there
is significant news) when I should be able to give you some more
specifics as to how and when we will be able to help you and the other
owners.

Take care, and thanks again for your support while we work through this
together.

Scott Slade
Manager, Customer Assistance
Mazda North American Operations

 

[t3ase]

I have around 14k on my car now. Give me a few weeks and I'm sure I'll pass 20k and let you all know if anything changes.

 

[girth]

Hurry up T3!!!! We all want you driving non-stop until you roll over to 20k!

Anyway, that's an interesting find GI. I'm on both sides of the fence ---- it is easy to believe that it might be done on purpose by Mazda because I truly believe that no engineer on Earth is so stupid as to not realize how rich the car is running. It's just not possible for these guys to not know the thing is running so rich. On the other hand it is hard to believe that they'd purposely do that simply because running so incredibly rich isn't good for the engine either (just think of all the deposits building up in there) - and especially for 20k miles --- that seems like an overly cautious number of miles to me. Who knows?! I guess we'll have to wait for T3 to put on another 7k....

 

[DooMer_MP3]

I can't be sure. But this is an email he recieved. It seems like a pretty legitimate source:

As promised, I want to give you a brief update on where we are at
concerning the issue you raised with the MAZDASPEED Proteg.

First, you should know that there are at least 15 individuals involved
in this matter now, including executive-level quality and engineering
people. We have begun weekly conference calls with everyone to ensure
progress is made. Second, we fully understand your concern, and are
working on a recalibration of the control module (the brain) for the
optimum resolution. We expect to begin testing the recalibration in
August.

I will give you another update by the end of August (or sooner if there
is significant news) when I should be able to give you some more
specifics as to how and when we will be able to help you and the other
owners.

Take care, and thanks again for your support while we work through this
together.

Scott Slade
Manager, Customer Assistance
Mazda North American Operations

Somebody PLEASE give me this Scott Slade's email address... or at least somebody high up in the chain! I have a certain clunkity clunk clunk noise I'd like to have a small "talk" about that has been ******* NOT FIXED FOR TWO YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!

PM it, whatever, I won't give it out. I just want to start some kind of dialog.

Chris

 

[Lodivigo]

I have an '88 RX-7 Convertible (S4 2nd gen), and it is true, there is a 20,000 mi. switch built into the odometer of the instrument cluster, tricky stuff huh? Go to rx7club.com and do a search on it if you don't believe me.

Kenetix...Soooo lucky, I'd kill for a GSL-SE.

 

[girth]

Somebody PLEASE give me this Scott Slade's email address... or at least somebody high up in the chain! I have a certain clunkity clunk clunk noise I'd like to have a small "talk" about that has been ******* NOT FIXED FOR TWO YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!

PM it, whatever, I won't give it out. I just want to start some kind of dialog.

Chris

Hey DooMer, ask and you shall receive. Please use these with caution though because if too many of us start flooding them with emails they're going to completely shut us out. JoeP, BoostIsGood, and myself have already contacted Mazda about the MSP hesitation and Boost and I are on a monthly email from Mazda customer service for updates on their progress. Before that happened though they really seemed to stress to us that directly emailing corporate Mazda was not appropriate for us peons (but what else can you do -- customer service doesn't do squat).

So please use these with caution... and I'd recommend talking to Newf because he's probably already contacted Mazda corporate about the clunk. DON'T over-do it right away -- I want the clunk fixed on my MSP just as bad as you want it fixed on your MP3, but don't piss them off right as they're finally starting to work on our hesitation problem or everyone here is going to have your nuts in a sling!!!

PM Newf to see what he's done so far, and then if you feel appropriate, send an email to one of these guys listed here about it --- better yet, start a PETITION on here first like BoostIsGood did -- your email will hold a lot more water if you have 100s of us MP3 and MSP owners backing you up -- it seemed to work for BoostIsGood!

Lastly, many many thanks to "RodSlinger" for originally posting all of these email addresses. They have been a life-saver in my opinion.

Engineering director, Kelvin Hiraishi KHiraish@mazdausa.com
Chief Designer, Truman Pollard TPollard@mazdausa.com

Other contacts at corporate. Make some noise!
mcheaven@mazdausa.com
rhitter@mazdausa.com
ldangond@mazdausa.com
nraman@mazdausa.com
dnapier@mazdausa.com
pweismul@mazdausa.com
breasone@mazdausa.com
ahaubric@mazdausa.com
jtodd@mazdausa.com
dholmes@mazdausa.com
klenhard@mazdausa.com
TLeimkuh@MazdaUSA.com
wskipwit@mazdausa.com
mnyenhui@mazdausa.com
LSmolins@mazdausa.com
jbenefie@mazdausa.com
bsim@mazdausa.com
gkaltz@mazdausa.com
jroper@mazdausa.com
paylett@mazdausa.com

 

[ForceFed]

The Mazdaspeed ECU definately does NOT have a crossover switch like the RX-7 or RX-8!
That is there specifically for the rotary engines which Mazda(the only company to ever successfully produce and build these Wankel motors)has eneabled so that the car is protected during the break in !The MSP uses a standard break in period like every other normal automobile,and to be brutally honest,most engines built today do not require the extensive break in period of the cars of yesteryear!
Matt

 

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Bascially not gonna be buying an RX8, with my driving I wouldn't see that cars full potential until after 2 years of owning it, and I want my power now damnit!

 

[Kenetix]

Just high center it on some cinder blocks and have a monkey step on the gas for bananas.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

So please use these with caution... and I'd recommend talking to Newf because he's probably already contacted Mazda corporate about the clunk. DON'T over-do it right away -- I want the clunk fixed on my MSP just as bad as you want it fixed on your MP3, but don't piss them off right as they're finally starting to work on our hesitation problem or everyone here is going to have your nuts in a sling!!!

Thanks girth. I agree on not overdoing it or ticking people off. However, newf has been dealing with mazda canada for the clunk, not mazda usa. As weird as it sounds, they are two completely different "companies" and do not address the same issues. That is why I'd like to get the ball rolling with somebody at Mazda USA. I appreciate it!

Chris

 

[girth]

Thanks girth. I agree on not overdoing it or ticking people off. However, newf has been dealing with mazda canada for the clunk, not mazda usa. As weird as it sounds, they are two completely different "companies" and do not address the same issues. That is why I'd like to get the ball rolling with somebody at Mazda USA. I appreciate it!

Chris

OK, sounds good! I certainly hope you get somebody working on the clunk because we all want that fixed too. Good luck - and like I say, you might want to start a petition on the MP3 forum to prove that you're not just "1 guy that thinks he has a problem." Everyone here would definitly back you up.