10psi... To boost or not to boost.

[smp3000]

For all you turbo-genius type folks this is a question for you.

For all of you who may have been under a rock for the past 6 months BEGI has come out wiht a turbo kit which FM has enriched and refined. The kit was set to run at 8psi and no higher. Currently most of us are at 6psi until furhter feul research is complete.

I was thinking today if it would ever be possible to run at 10psi... I know that many things would have to be upgraded before we did so. But I wasn't quite sure what exactly.

My guess is I'd need an aux feul pump and larger injectors. Motor Mounts and of course a new clutch are a must. But what else am I missing? I have the P5 ECU so that did retard my timing a bit. If this is somehting that IS possible I'd love to take those steps int he future and get her running almost twice the psi I am now.

Just a thought...

 

[spoolinmp3]

Hmmmmmmmm the boost bug hit ya ha
Well anything over 8 psi, an FMU or afpr will not be sufficient. You will need something to retard timing, and add more fuel accuratley. This can be done 2 ways. Either utilize a full standalone managment system i.e haltech, tec 3. This is the best route in terms of power and drivability but is rather on the pricey side and will never be CARB certified. Or you can use some type of piggy back system that can manipulate timing and add fuel via either bigger or additional injectors. Greddy emanage is an idea or a LINK piggy system that is utilized by FM on there m2 miatas.

I do not know if you are aware but we are working on a microtech stand alone system that is a plug and play affair. We are waiting on microtech australia to retrofit the ecu to our cars making it an easy install. This will also have pretuned defaults that will make fine tuning a breeze. This software will work on any turbo protege and will yeild 250 whp figures due to the increased ability to control timing and fuel maps extremely accuratly and ridding of the stock ecu's limitations.
The system will utilize 4 bigger injectors and will include a hand held key pad and interface cables enabling you to use a labtop to plot fuel and ignition maps.
I have had some preliminary interaction with this system and by far it is extremely user friendly.
I will keep ya'll updated

 

[smp3000]

That sounds awesome!!!!! I know I wouold be asking 234523452345 questions about it, but if it's going to do it all then it's worth it. I'm very interested in this application.

Finally my laptop will come to some use! hehe

 

[mazdamastertech]

with this microtech, will it use the factory sensers?

 

[spoolinmp3]

with this microtech, will it use the factory sensers?

Yes it will use all factory sensors, but I think water temp has to be changed. Not to sure about this

 

[1sty]

I'm in

 

[Tonpow]

Sounds like another good setup. 500-1000 price range?

 

[spoolinmp3]

We are still working out pricing, so I cannot release that info now. But take into consideration this sytem a replacment full stand alone system (not a piggy back like the emanage) and is on par with haltech, tec2 ect. These systems range from 1500-2500 dollars. A piggy back system like an emange is about in the 500 dollar range.

 

[slowyellowp5]

I DON'T want to be the bubble buster, but wasn't the last guy to go to 10psi the one who threw a rod or two? Of course one of these systems is needed, as well as better fuel delivery, but couple other things would be necessary:

1) forged rods
2) lower comp. pistons
3) Would upgrade my tranny in a few places as well...god I hate our tranny

 

[spoolinmp3]

If you have accurate fuel and timing control you can safley boost 10psi. Upgrading internals would be nice but not absolutly necessary.....I have been boosting 10psi for the past month reliably
I usually stay around 7 psi though. Heck I have even overboosted to like 20 psi........very scary

 

[PhyschoMP3]

How much money would it be to make a custom tranny that can handle the power? What tranny does the JIC people use dont they have like 500hp? And with like above ten psi wont you want to use High Silicon Forged Pistons?

 

[PRO 5]

Damn you Spoolin! Damn you straight to HELL!!! Hehehe! I knew you would find a way to get more of my money. I am definatly interested in this stand alone set up. Keep me informed! Oh yeah, if you been wondering why I have not been on the boards for a while, just think of the worst thing that could happen when you go turbo..... I'll shoot you an e-mail if I don't shoot myself first! Later!

Dave

 

[big_ben]

I keep hearing of this mysterious guy that broke a rod after boosting to 10psi. Guess what guys, he doesn't exist. The only people that have broken their motors were the ones using nitrous. Well,....I was using turbo but my motor crapped out because of the oil line, not from over boosting. Terry has been the only (known) Protege that has gone up to around 10 and 12psi. But he has active timing control, no one else to date has used any active timing control. I have the J&S, but I never even had a chance to install it.

Another thing I've been thinking about is this. Of all the people that have blown their motors using nitrous, they have broken the piston and not the rod. There is only one person who bent a rod, and that is the guy in Houston. But he claims that is was because of water injestion and not nitrous. (yeah, ok)

Linuxracer - broke half of his piston off
MP3owner - melted a hole in his piston
The guy in Houston - bent rod

So it sounds to me like it's the weakness of the pistons and not the rods. I'm not sure if anyone else has broken their motor. I know I've heard of a few more but I cant remember. Anyone want to add to the list.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Didn't Inimical ES Boost 10 psi, and killed his motor?

 

[Keith@FP]

Mazda has told us that 10 psi is the limit for the bottom end for long-term reliability. We have always been conservative in our designs, preferring to have customers with 180,000 turbocharged miles instead of 300 hp (and we have both). Go to 10 at your own risk, and definitely don't do it without some sort of fuel and timing upgrades. The AFPR is limited to about 8 psi of boost.

Keith

 

[big_ben]

No, he had a bad boost spike to like 15 or 20psi. And he had no timing control. He was also using a T3/T4. So his was definetely boost related, but his turbo system was very, um, shadetree mechanic like. Oh I remember now, he was running 10spsi non-intercooled. Then he had his bad boost spike. That was al she wrote for his motor. He didn't come around after that. I wonder if it was his rod or his piston that went.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Damn, I won't even run 6 on my car non-intercooled! (shocked)

 

[1sty]

No but you'd NOS it and blow it sky high

 

[big_ben]

Actually, 6psi nonintercooled would be ok as long as you are putting in plenty of fuel. It would make a badass autocross car if you had 6psi non-intercooled from a T28. Instant boost!

 

[big_ben]

No but you'd NOS it and blow it sky high

hahahaha! He's got you there! That's funny, I'm sure it's not funny to you though Patrick, $10,000 later.