WTF is wrong with our motors?

[katsi]

Our cars do have amazing handling, I can beat pretty much anything in the twisties.

Just was really disturbing how little our output is with a 2.0 The ecu makes sense, but the swap should fix that imo, dunno...I think that remaping sounds like a good option.


My p5 is wrecked right now and i dont know if im getting it back, so i had to find ways to erase it from my mind, basically convince myself that the car sucked so that i dont miss it

 

[tonybonekhang]

Well there's no reason to bash on Hondas just because Mazdas suck too. I drive both so...yeah. In the end both cars aren't designed to stomp anything at the lights. The Protege and Civic are meant to be economy cars with a little bit of performance thrown into them for a funner drive.

The perk of the Protege is the sport-tuned suspension - hence the road noise you're complaining about. The perk of the Civic is the VTEC and durability. Even though they both have the same Peak HP the VTEC in the honda keeps it at a much higher HP throughout the powerband resulting in faster acceleration. The real reason Honda's are great tuner cars isn't because of the VTEC but the fact that Honda likes to overbuild their motors. The stock pistons and internals are good to 250/300 hp if you can get the numbers there (ie turbo ).

Face it, whether you're driving a stock Civic or a Protege you're not going to be gluing yourself into the back of your seat. Both cars have the potential for aftermarket improvement, as all do. If you're looking for a "s*** bricks" g-force at stop lights look to their higher end cars like RX-7's and NSX's but don't b**** about the sluggishness of the cars these manufacturers designed for the demographics consisting of moms and college students.

 

[katsi]

I wasnt bitching about there slowness, I was complaining about the power that just seems to have "dissapeared" Where DID IT GO!!!


And thats just the thing, It was never there at all.

Look at a b20 motor, and compare it to the FS, esentially there the same motor, 2.0 DOHC 4 cyl motors, But the b20 walks all over it.

I Know the car was slow, and i always knew that, Just a strange phenomenon for a 2.0 to make 98 bhp

 

[BacardiBreezer]

Well there's no reason to bash on Hondas just because Mazdas suck too. I drive both so...yeah. In the end both cars aren't designed to stomp anything at the lights. The Protege and Civic are meant to be economy cars with a little bit of performance thrown into them for a funner drive.

The perk of the Protege is the sport-tuned suspension - hence the road noise you're complaining about. The perk of the Civic is the VTEC and durability. Even though they both have the same Peak HP the VTEC in the honda keeps it at a much higher HP throughout the powerband resulting in faster acceleration. The real reason Honda's are great tuner cars isn't because of the VTEC but the fact that Honda likes to overbuild their motors. The stock pistons and internals are good to 250/300 hp if you can get the numbers there (ie turbo ).

Face it, whether you're driving a stock Civic or a Protege you're not going to be gluing yourself into the back of your seat. Both cars have the potential for aftermarket improvement, as all do. If you're looking for a "s*** bricks" g-force at stop lights look to their higher end cars like RX-7's and NSX's but don't b**** about the sluggishness of the cars these manufacturers designed for the demographics consisting of moms and college students.

Very well said also the reason Hondas are so popular, is the potential for motor swaps, most any motor can go into any other car, and also being able to swap specific parts.

 

[Tom03es]

Just a strange phenomenon for a 2.0 to make 98 bhp

98 whp.

 

[aMaff]

The rods are made of jello.

/thread.

 

[BacardiBreezer]

Agree. These cars are the most fun to drive car ever. I have drove most every car that is in the Pro's class and the its by far the most fun.

Also how dare anyone compare a Mazda to a Honda. They should be shot if u ask me. Thats just wrong.

The FS is a long stroke engine that has a pretty much equal Hp to Tq ratio.

Come one..... ya some honda's have 150ish or more hp, but thats all top end.

You have to get the car moving first to do anything, and thats where the Honda's suck. NO TQ.

HONDA SUCKS!!!!! (except a 6.5hp motor on a mini-bike)

Now I don't want to start a fight or anything, but you don't seem to know much about Hondas, and if you don't, you shouldn't be putting them down if you don't know the facts. I am a Honda lover and I won't drive anything else, but I do like P5s, which is why I'm here.

But it seems like you are comparing only the Civic motors, 1.5/1.6, you're right, they are slow. They are meant to get extremely good gas mileage. But, take any Integra, Prelude, or RSX motor and you're going to be easily left in the dust. The base Integra motor (mine) puts out 140 at the crank and like I said, 120whp/122wtq. Add VTEC in the older models, and you're at 160hp with a 1.7L. The 94-01 GSR (1.8L VTEC) made 170hp. The JDM 1.6L (b16a1) makes 165hp (it's DOHC VTEC). The Integra Type R made 190hp with a 1.8L VTEC. The RSX Type S makes a couple more than that with a 2.0L, but I'm not a huge fan of the K series. The B20 as mentioned is a pretty torquey motor. The Prelude's H22 easily makes over 200 stock, but isn't as reliable as the B series. Also the CRX, which usually came with a 1.5L...in Japan, came with the B16 - 165hp in a ~1900lb car.

Also you forget how well these motors are made and can put up with a ton of abuse if need be, not just the motors, but the transmissions as well. Also easily swapped into another platform. I don't see any reason why you'd have a problem with a company that excels in reliability, excellent quality, fun, decent power, and at the same time, good gas mileage. Unless you're bitter, I don't know.

I know it's pretty much pointless to try to point out the facts on this board, you guys are all Mazda biased, but well, I said it so it's there. Like I said I do like P5s, but I wouldn't own one unless I had a daily driver because I don't like the problems Mazda has.

 

[Blackrose]

Im not Mazda biased. Hell ive owned and tuned two Hondas that were monsters. And I currently own a Subaru. I also own three Mazdas but hey whos counting.......

 

[tonybonekhang]

I agree that it is underpowered for a 2 liter motor (should be at least 150-180 @ the crank) but what can you do? I don't know too much about Mazda motors but from what I've gathered...the rods are weak so the ecu cuts on fuel and air delivery preventing the motor from making too much power and snapping rods. I'll bet if you swapped in some decent rods and retuned the ecu you could hit the "should-be-at" mark. You could probably blame the engineers at ford for the call on the weak rods.

 

[ZOOMit]

What I dont understand is if Ford knows the rods are weak, why put them in the car? I'm a finance guy so this makes some sense to me: crappy weak rods are cheap ...I just took a ride up to the gas station and stomped on it, it actually seemed pretty stout to me, but wth do i kno lol

 

[WRCprotege]

civic.. lol ,look ..ya we dont have big hp cars. but we have good TQ and power everywhere in the rmp band.. i race civics all the time, and win.. i also get, many moded civic si's as well, the 160hp cars..when it come to real roads/etc our cars do very well.. the hp is just a number, it be 2 or 200.. judge the car on its performance..

 

[Tom03es]

Accountants design cars, not engineers.

 

[Keno1542]

Accountants design cars, not engineers.

so true...accountants want the cheapest possible design, even if it is not the best...engineers have no room to engineer parts better than they need to be, just the bare minimum

 

[khaosman]

Generally Civics are lighter and some of their engines respond better to mods (plus a bigger market) than ours, so yeah I can see us getting beat...

 

[Salmon_Rob]

I agree that it is underpowered for a 2 liter motor (should be at least 150-180 @ the crank) but what can you do? I don't know too much about Mazda motors but from what I've gathered...the rods are weak so the ecu cuts on fuel and air delivery preventing the motor from making too much power and snapping rods. I'll bet if you swapped in some decent rods and retuned the ecu you could hit the "should-be-at" mark. You could probably blame the engineers at ford for the call on the weak rods.

What I dont understand is if Ford knows the rods are weak, why put them in the car? I'm a finance guy so this makes some sense to me: crappy weak rods are cheap ...I just took a ride up to the gas station and stomped on it, it actually seemed pretty stout to me, but wth do i kno lol

why would you blame ford? they had nothing at all to do with the protege except for the physical ecu (not the programming at all, just the box)

 

[MTV]

I find this car is rather quick for 130hp if anything.

I stomp on civics, golfs and other related cars all day long.

A friend of mine owns a 4 cylinder Accord, with about 150hp, 156 torque and I am faster. Both cars are manual...

My 2 cents.

 

[JoshP5]

...the rods are weak...

Yes, for turbo applications, but they're good enough for 170hp in the FSZE.

We got the 130hp tune because most Americans like torquey cars that run on crap gas.

 

[Phoenix5]

Yeah,stock...ours cars are pretty slow.But the simple I/H/E combo adds a bit more pep for the FS,so the car shows slightly more power.I mean,if you want more power,just go turbo!Otherwise,focus on optimizing the handling of Protege.

 

[Rally Ninja]

Remember the FS-DE is a 25 year old design.

FOR REAL?!?!?! If I knew this I wouldn't of bought a second msp, or the first one....maybe..(cheers)

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

The FSDE is like everything "relationship" in the world. If you dont put anything into it, you wont get anything out of it. Go about it the right way, you have the potential for greatness. Treat it like s*** and it will blow up in your face.

So to me there is nothing wrong with the motor.