Why gas prices are so high

msubullyfan

Yeah, I'm an engineer...
:
2005 Nissan Frontier 4x4
I posted this in another thread earlier, but I think it was already dying. FYI - hope this sheds some light on the subject.

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A one-day ban on gasoline isn't going to help send notice to the oil companies, who have a month or more supply of gasoline sitting in tankers and who measure revenues in annual terms. However, it does kill the small business owners who run gas stations and depend on daily revenues to feed their families.

Guys, I see a lot of bashing the oil companies going on. I think it's important to point out a few basics of how the oil production/refining industry works to make sure that the spike in gas prices can be understood (I'm an ex-Exxon engineer who worked in refining support -- now I work in the power industry)...

First, the cost of gasoline is mainly made up of five components...

1 - oil exploration/production
2 - refining
3 - energy conversion
4 - transportation
5 - taxes

Explanation of each...

1 - (called "upstream" in the business) This cost is from actually finding the crude oil, drilling for it, pumping it out of the ground, and getting it to the oil storage facilities. While US/British/Dutch companies like ExxonMobil, BP Amoco, Chevron-Texaco, Shell, etc. do much exploration, drilling, and pumping themselves, the American economy relies on much more oil than these companies have production capacity worldwide. Hence, we rely on a great quantity of foreign oil preserves, much of which is controlled by OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries). OPEC has continued to control crude oil prices by restricting demand, so the cost for crude oil has doubled from $20 per barrel to over $40 per barrel in the last 18 months. This is where much of the cost increase has come from -- as oil companies have to pay much more for their raw materials (read: crude oil), that cost must be passed on to the consumer for the companies to make a profit.

2 - (called "downstream" in the business) Refining costs include the cost of building refineries, maintenance on them, and the cost of keeping the refineries running. This cost has held relatively flat in recent years, and has actually declined in many instances as oil companies reduce staffing and try to do more with less people to keep costs down. Also, as environmental restrictions in the US continue to become tougher, companies must produce different, more expensive, blends of gasoline (I'm sure some of you have heard of "reformulated" gasoline, as an example).

3 - Refining is a very energy-intensive, low-efficiency process. It takes much heat to break up the components in crude oil, and natural gas and electrical power are the main energy sources for refineries to run their processes. Natural gas demand has increased at twice the rate that new gas wells and production facilities have been built in the last 5 years due to an increasing reliance on natural gas to produce electrial power. This has been because natural gas burns efficiently and produces less environmental emissions than coal power and because nuclear plants can't be built because of the political hot potato of "not in my back yard". So, almost all new power plants built in the last ten years have been combined-cycle gas turbine plants (I can provide more info on how these work if anyone's interested). So, it's a double whammy: Natural gas costs more because more is being used, and power prices go up because gas is higher. Both of these are needed in large quantities to process crude oil into gasoline. So, the increasing energy conversion costs are passed along to consumers, too.

4 - It might be surprising that transportation costs have dramatically increased in the last few years. Due to two factors (1: the high relative cost of labor in the United States vs. other countries, and 2: the stringent environmental restrictions that refining companies face in the US due to the EPA), much of the world's refining capacity (even in US?European companies) has shifted from North America?Europe to Asia. This has caused a significant increase in transporation costs, although it is partially offset by the reduction in labor costs and the less stringent environmental regulations.

5 - Don't ignore the impact of taxes on gasoline. It's roughly 1/3 of the cost of gasoline (sometimes more in different parts of the country). This cost is completely out of the hands of the oil companies. As gasoline prices increase, I have yet to hear of any state lowering the taxes on gasoline to help the consumer offset the rising costs of the things listed above.

So, what can be done about it?

1 - We have to stop depending on foreign countries over which we have no control to supply the bulk of our oil supplies. We have a HUGE resource in Alaska (in ANWAR) that can help out a lot. President Bush has been a proponent of tapping into these resources until we can develop the technologies that reduce our dependency on crude oil. However, he can't get enough support in Congress to get approval to do it because of people that have no idea what they're talking about who are scared of "ruining the environment".

2 - Make sure that we support the EPA in providing more federal funds for our petroleum and power companies to help develop and implement emissions controls. All the cost of retrofitting refineries and power plants to better control emissions is directly passed onto the consumer. This can be done without increasing taxes IF many federal entitlement programs are cut.

3 - THIS IS IMPORTANT - make sure you use your vote to vote for politicians (whether Democrat or Republican) that stand for a sound energy policy of increasing domestic production, encouraging development of new technologies, and providing tax credits for companies to make power plants, refineries, and industrial facilities more energy efficient so they can afford to pay for them. Guys, I'm not trying to get politically biased, so please don't get onto me for this, but John Kerry has stated for the record that he favors increasing the taxes on gasoline up to twice what they are now (which could drive gasoline to $3/gallon) to force people to go to more fuel-efficient cars. This is not a political slant -- it's a fact. Other politicans (mostly Democrats, but some Republicans have, too) have stated the same idea. Anyone who is involved in the energy industry will tell you that this is a BAAAAD idea because it doesn't matter how efficient your car is, you're still going to get taxed for it at the pump.

I'll be glad to respond to any questions...
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Here's another thing that can be done about it:
4) Take the energy you use to complain about gas prices, when this country pays some of the lowest prices in the world, and get off your lazy asses and walk places close enough to walk, bike places (the bicycle is one of the most efficient transportation devices in existence), and you know those mass transportation systems, like buses? Use them. If after all of this, you still need to complain about gas prices, then go for it.

I really don't complain about gas prices. I've definitely noticed the hike, so I drive less, walk/bike more. Really isn't affecting me much. Amazing...

Chris
 
lol......yeah and you know what if everyone started walking or riding bikes to places that are close enough to go to without their car on a regular bases. There won't be as many overweight people. (probably not intirely true)
 
I also hate the price increase, but at the same time people pay up to $3 for a bottle of water.
 
STOP COMPLAINING. goto europe, where its $3-$5/gal.

stop bitching. I'm sick of it. I've been tracking gas prices/oil wholesale/gas wholesale over a year. I now know the exact date gas will go up in Grand Rapids, and I'm within about .02 when I estimate what it will go upto. Its definitely benefitted my friends and family. Im very accurate. I dont really care ALL that much. I think its good for us. Rid everyone of the SUVs if they dont need em.
 
pdhaudio83 said:
STOP COMPLAINING. goto europe, where its $3-$5/gal.

stop bitching. I'm sick of it. I've been tracking gas prices/oil wholesale/gas wholesale over a year. I now know the exact date gas will go up in Grand Rapids, and I'm within about .02 when I estimate what it will go upto. Its definitely benefitted my friends and family. Im very accurate. I dont really care ALL that much. I think its good for us. Rid everyone of the SUVs if they dont need em.

actually its 3-5$ a liter not a gallon....thats even worse
 
Now is this making them OPEC countries richer?
No, I don't think so; companies that buy oil get it by the barrel they can get it for really cheap
i'm gonna throw a figure out around $10 or more, a little crazy but i think its somewere around there (then again i could be wrong)
 
Great info, and all true, but the wealth of the current administration is oil and energy based, so of course they want to drill everywhere. And never has anyone in D.C. really put any effort into alternative power. Lots of Talk about promising future tech though. Just no funding for it. Solar is still greatly surpressed in Arizona after all these years, for example. It is illegal there for a homeowner to add solar to their home (except for some cities allow a tiny little passive collector for hot water, if you can get a permit that is). There is just to much infrastructure in the old oil/coal/water and American's just don't care much about anything until it hurts their wallets. Personally, I wish the price of gas was over $3 gallon just to break this trend and start us down a better, cleaner, more modern path. Oil supplies will effectively run out in my childrens lifetime, as no new Real reserves have been found for a long time, just claimed reserves that can't be economically gotten to. Until the fortunes of the powerful get impacted, we just don't count. $4 a gallon would be even better. Then many people would telecomute too, and I can work from my deck.
 
DooMer_MP3's post is one of the most accurate and well considered I've seen on the matter of fuel issues to date. What hes suggested is spot on.

It's well established fact that the United States suffers from epidemic troubles-- We being the fattest, most glutenenous nation in the entire world in our disproportionate use of energy and our ballooning, disgusting problems with obesity; both adult and now child. While many are oblivious to the issue, its one of morbid reality: Being overweight kills.

Choosing to bike or walk to your reasonably near destinations is an issue of absolute logic and intelligent resolve. You save money, you prevent pollution, you congest roadways less, you resolve parking problems, you help maintain your health On and on and on. Your own quality of life and the well being of everyone else is worth making this kind of decision when you need to get somewhere. Really.

So indeed, when it comes to high fuel prices, I cant say Im overjoyed about it, but I made deliberate decisions earlier that have led to this issue not effecting me very much (I live 15 minutes away by foot from my office; 5 via bike!), except for the inflation brought on (thanks to the truck lobbys pushing the use of inefficient friggin trucks instead of trains). In fact, I get a certain degree of satisfaction in knowing I made the right choice: I never have to deal with parking. I never have to deal with traffic. Im back and forth faster than via car. I can enjoy a stress reducing walk or bike ride before and after each work day. I stay in better shape and feel better than I would otherwise. I get to set my insurance rates lower because I can indicate on my policy, Miles to work: 0. (Thats ZERO!) And I also can indicate lower yearly mileage because I dont have to use the car everyday if I dont want to. I love it. Unless Im on a road trip or something I dont have to fill up except maybe once a month, sometimes even longer.

Cars are cool and its safe to say were all enthusiasts hereIm not intending to knock that. But theres also great merit to, say, riding a bike. Pick up a nice Specialized or maybe even something better, and you can look cool (by being in better shape), feel better (by being in better shape), and save yourself much of the troubles associated with driving. Then you can drive your car when you otherwise want to-- For fun instead of necessity. And the money you save can be put into mods or anything else that makes you happy.

Seriously, even for those where riding a bike or walking might take a little longer than by car, the trade offs still outweigh the car option in many cases. For those of you who honestly can, you should try it. Ive saved thousands in the last several years by no longer having to drive. Its really awesome--
 
So, what can be done about it?

1 - We have to stop depending on foreign countries over which we have no control to supply the bulk of our oil supplies. We have a HUGE resource in Alaska (in ANWAR) that can help out a lot. President Bush has been a proponent of tapping into these resources until we can develop the technologies that reduce our dependency on crude oil. However, he can't get enough support in Congress to get approval to do it because of people that have no idea what they're talking about who are scared of "ruining the environment".

2 - Make sure that we support the EPA in providing more federal funds for our petroleum and power companies to help develop and implement emissions controls. All the cost of retrofitting refineries and power plants to better control emissions is directly passed onto the consumer. This can be done without increasing taxes IF many federal entitlement programs are cut.

3 - THIS IS IMPORTANT - make sure you use your vote to vote for politicians (whether Democrat or Republican) that stand for a sound energy policy of increasing domestic production, encouraging development of new technologies, and providing tax credits for companies to make power plants, refineries, and industrial facilities more energy efficient so they can afford to pay for them. Guys, I'm not trying to get politically biased, so please don't get onto me for this, but John Kerry has stated for the record that he favors increasing the taxes on gasoline up to twice what they are now (which could drive gasoline to $3/gallon) to force people to go to more fuel-efficient cars. This is not a political slant -- it's a fact. Other politicans (mostly Democrats, but some Republicans have, too) have stated the same idea. Anyone who is involved in the energy industry will tell you that this is a BAAAAD idea because it doesn't matter how efficient your car is, you're still going to get taxed for it at the pump.

I'll be glad to respond to any questions...
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I agree.
 
**** EUROPE. if i cared what the cost of living in europe was, ID GO ******* LIVE THERE.

"So and so has it worse than us, so we should bend over!"

Bah, whatever. **** oil companies and **** the government. WALK OR RIDE A BIKE AND **** THIS s***
 
The higher gas prices go, the happier I am. I wish it was $20 a gallon for all I care. I live 13 miles away from work but I bike to work anyway. It's brutal, but it's the only physical activity I get so it's worth it. Plus I just bought this to help out.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/lashout.htm
I love watching you chumps paying insane gas prices......

Oh, and you can't really argue that "oh, milk costs $4 a gallon blah blah blah" because most people only use about a gallon of that a week. It's a lot harder to use just 1 gallon of gas per week.

So anyway, I cheer the high prices!!! Keep them coming!!! Meanwhile I'll be enjoying my bicycle.
 
Giddyup. Its good to see I'm not the only one who uses the higher prices as motivation to a healthier lifestyle, both physically and environmentally. I can't help but laugh at the stupid b**** soccer-mom who drives an SUV with nobody in it, and almost knocks me over off my bike, because she has no idea what she's doing. No knowledge of pedestrians. If I die, I'll be laughing on my way to hell.

Chris
 
I'm sorry but those are pretty selfish statements, just like the Hummer2 is one, but others have to drive to work, its not like we intent to work 100 miles from home. I just live 20 miles from work, and a bike is not an option, I do drive a more friendly vehicle to work, but $30 of gas a week when it used to be $16 hurts, because everything that needs delivery and transportation will go up and yes that will include milk and your precious bike parts. Just look at FedEx and UPS shipping prices. They have gone up 33% in the past year. I enjoy driving, and will continue no matter what the price of gas is, I will have to limit the spirited driving. My concern is that prices go up because an organization decides to limit the supply. There is no shortage, they are making more money by the imposed limits.
 
Obviously biking to work would be unreasonable for you, and it will be moreso for me once I move. But I'll also be living in downtown Milwaukee so I'll be able to walk and bike to most places outside of work. But find other times to bike. Going to get ice cream a mile or 2 away? Bike... Going to the mall a few miles away? Bike. Going to the Walgreens a few blocks away? Bike. That kind of stuff. Those little trips while your car isn't even warmed up (and consuming even more fuel since its not up to operating temps) is what I'm talking about.

Chris
 
yes I do agree anything close wouldnt be a bad idea, I just dont believe we should be happy when gas goes up.
 
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