Who wants to explain coilovers to the newb?

[peepsalot]

Ok, so does the MSP already have coilovers? Aftermarket ones would tighten up handling I guess? What are the differences between stock and some aftermarket coilovers? I hardly know what they are, enlighten me please.

I like the sporty feel of the MSP suspension when going through turns, but then I turn around and curse it every time I ride down a bumpy road. Is there any way to get a smoother ride without sacrificing performance, or do the two simply not play well together?

 

[blynzoo]

There are two parts to this: The spring and the spring damper (we call the dampers "shocks" in the US).

The spring is a simple mechanical device, in that by its design it provides so many ft lbs of resistance. Most springs are progressive, i.e. you can usually see two or more "zones" in the spring that offer various resistance. Usually a small portion of the spring is soft and provides bump softening, the rest of it takes care of the bigger bumps.

The damper -- Ill call it a shock from now on, although bugs the hell out of me -- is there to control the movement of the spring. Ever rode in someone's old caddy, or olds, and the car rolls up and down after hitting a bump like it's on waves? That's because the springs are still doing there jobs, but the shocks are shot, and are not controlling the movement of the spring. Ideally, the spring should only compress/decompress once. The shock is what controls the movement of the spring.

Jesus, this is getting long. You better make this a sticky.

The shock has two "settings"...at least. There is the rate of compression, the rate at which the shock allows the spring to compress. YOu dont want the spring to just shoot up and end up bottoming out every time you run over a twig (exaggerated example). Too stiff, and the spring doesnt give at all, and the car goes bouncing up in the air.

THe second setting is the speed at which the shock moves the spring back down to the pavement. The stiffer the shock -- to a point -- the quicker the wheel gets back down to the ground.

Okay, got all that?

Coilovers are combination shock/spring combos, most often adjustable. Do a search on the site to find them. You will see a spring on an adjustable perch on the strut, and within that spring you will see the shock (spring damper).

When looking at aftermarket coilovers, you want to compare a) the spring rate with your current spring rate and b) the compression and rebound stiffness of the shock. Too soft, and you get a smoother ride with decreased handling and increased body roll, too stiff and you're riding in a kart down city streets.

I didnt get into how the shocks physiologically work, through hydraulics and heat. Someone else can do that.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gbourdon]

If I am not mistaken we have coilovers. Just not adjustable coilovers. Otherwise they would be struts. (scratch)

 

[torque222]

There are two parts to this: The spring and the spring damper (we call the dampers "shocks" in the US).

The spring is a simple mechanical device, in that by its design it provides so many ft lbs of resistance. Most springs are progressive, i.e. you can usually see two or more "zones" in the spring that offer various resistance. Usually a small portion of the spring is soft and provides bump softening, the rest of it takes care of the bigger bumps.

The damper -- Ill call it a shock from now on, although bugs the hell out of me -- is there to control the movement of the spring. Ever rode in someone's old caddy, or olds, and the car rolls up and down after hitting a bump like it's on waves? That's because the springs are still doing there jobs, but the shocks are shot, and are not controlling the movement of the spring. Ideally, the spring should only compress/decompress once. The shock is what controls the movement of the spring.

Jesus, this is getting long. You better make this a sticky.

The shock has two "settings"...at least. There is the rate of compression, the rate at which the shock allows the spring to compress. YOu dont want the spring to just shoot up and end up bottoming out every time you run over a twig (exaggerated example). Too stiff, and the spring doesnt give at all, and the car goes bouncing up in the air.

THe second setting is the speed at which the shock moves the spring back down to the pavement. The stiffer the shock -- to a point -- the quicker the wheel gets back down to the ground.

Okay, got all that?

Coilovers are combination shock/spring combos, most often adjustable. Do a search on the site to find them. You will see a spring on an adjustable perch on the strut, and within that spring you will see the shock (spring damper).

When looking at aftermarket coilovers, you want to compare a) the spring rate with your current spring rate and b) the compression and rebound stiffness of the shock. Too soft, and you get a smoother ride with decreased handling and increased body roll, too stiff and you're riding in a kart down city streets.

I didnt get into how the shocks physiologically work, through hydraulics and heat. Someone else can do that.

Hope this helps.

could you repeat that, i mean retype that? lol j/k...good explanation/ well put

 

[Mallard]

No, we have a MacPherson Strut suspension. Not the same thing as a coilover, although similar. The term coilover is usually used for dampers that have threaded shock bodies that allow adjustable ride height. I can't think of an instance myself where it is used otherwise. (I may be wrong...I think AWR might call their suspension 'coilovers' but they aren't adjustable...although i'd never use that terminology.)

 

[peepsalot]

So what, besides adjustablility, are the differences from our MacPherson Struts and coilovers?

How easy is it to adjust coilovers? The two "settings" are what is adjustable, and ride height also? Or is ride height an effect of adjusting those settings.

And it sounds like you are saying that smooth ride and good handling performance are mutually exclusive?

 

[blynzoo]

It depends. The spring resistance is inherent in the build of the spring, i.e. it cannot be changed. You can adjust -- in the case of adjustable shocks, of course -- both the compression and rebound rates of the spring damper. In all adjustable coilovers you can adjust the ride height. That's what makes them adjustable.

Stockers on most cars (Porsche, M-Series, AMG, some Audis, Range Rover, and others are exceptions) are totally sealed dampers. You cant adjust them. Nor can you adjust the spring height. For this you need aftermarket coilovers.

Just take a look at pictures of them on this board, you will see what we are describing visually.

 

[tonkabui]

the performance of coilovers are only fully realized when you use them right. the reason for ride height adjustment is for weight balancing on the car through cornerweights. by adjusting the height, you can get the car closer to a 50/50 weight distribution. when you adjust dampening and rebounding, it usually is for specific road courses.

 

[vodapas77]

So what, besides adjustablility, are the differences from our MacPherson Struts and coilovers?

How easy is it to adjust coilovers? The two "settings" are what is adjustable, and ride height also? Or is ride height an effect of adjusting those settings.

And it sounds like you are saying that smooth ride and good handling performance are mutually exclusive?

Well there isn't a lot of difference. It's the same basic idea the coil spring surrounds the damper. The main difference is that with a MacPherson strut design the spring and the damper are not connected. With a coil-over the spring is actually held on one end by a ring that is attached to the damper. This allows you to change the ride height of the vehicle by moving the ring up and compressing the spring.

Now, keep in mind there are two different types of coil-overs on the market. Full coil-overs (JIC,Tein) and sleeve type coil overs (Ground Control, Skunk 2). There is a lot difference here. A ful coil over will include dampers and springs that are specifically intended to work together and they almost always allow you to adjust the level of dampening provided by the damper. Sleeve type simply come with replacement springs and a ring (sleeve) that attaches to your stock damper.

Basica rules of thumb are full coil-overs will cost you a hell of a lot more money than sleeve type. However, full coil overs allow you much more than just height adjustment and will actually improve your handling while still providing a decent ride. Sleeve type do little to improve anything but the stance of your car and reduce ride comfort which gets progressively worse the further the vehicle is lowered. This is because you are reducing the length of the spring's travel but the level of dampening is staying constant. Make sense?

As for whether or not good handling and ride comfort are mutually exclusive, that is really a matter of opinion. As far as I am concerned the ride comfort of my car was not degraded by my Tein S/S coil overs and the handling was most definitely improved. So, I would say that a properly tuned full coil over st up can provide both. But, I would say it would be tough in most cases to improve the ride comfort and the handling dramatically at the same time. With the possible exception of those super expensive electronicaly magnetic controlled suspensions offered on very high end cars. But, that is just my opinion.

 

[UnNaturalinc]

No pictures posted yet?

True coilovers

Coilovers 'sleeves'

Traditional spring/strut

 

[peepsalot]

Wow, those looks delicious. I see they are teins, which version are they? They make varying quality models, no? How much for those, I'm guessing 15 big ones, but I have no idea. Eh, not like I can really afford anything right now anyways. I just like learning about this stuff though, but maybe one day.

 

[goku4658]

^^thats hot

 

[UnNaturalinc]

Wow, those looks delicious. I see they are teins, which version are they? They make varying quality models, no? How much for those, I'm guessing 15 big ones, but I have no idea. Eh, not like I can really afford anything right now anyways. I just like learning about this stuff though, but maybe one day.

Actually the prices are not to bad for Tein. Both SS and Basics are made for the BJ chassis Protege.

I'm eventually going to swap out my Tokico/Goldline setup for a full coilover system. Not sure if I'm going with JIC or Tein yet.

 

[Dexter]

whats all the adjustment s*** on the top of the coilover?

 

[UnNaturalinc]

whats all the adjustment s*** on the top of the coilover?

Some systems have adjustable pillow ball mounts (aka camber plates).


Also keep in mind... alignments are not cheap. However, when I had my car aligned last they had a special where you spend $120 and have lifetime alignments. That'd be nice if you changed your setup for the track on the weekends.

 

[jaman]

Sleeve type do little to improve anything but the stance of your car and reduce ride comfort which gets progressively worse the further the vehicle is lowered. This is because you are reducing the length of the spring's travel but the level of dampening is staying constant. Make sense?

I doubt dampening is linear. So if you compress the spring you are also compressing the damper which implies that the dampening does not stay constant. However, this does not mean that the new dampening is correct.

 

[Mallard]

Some systems have adjustable pillow ball mounts (aka camber plates).


Also keep in mind... alignments are not cheap. However, when I had my car aligned last they had a special where you spend $120 and have lifetime alignments. That'd be nice if you changed your setup for the track on the weekends.

If you can use a measuring tape and a wrench you can do your own alignments. With camber plates it's even easier. Set the camber, measure toe, change, measure again, tighten nut, drive away.

 

[Mallard]

Sleeve type coilivers also allow you to source your own shock instead of being stuck with whatever Tein, JIC, etc uses.

 

[popnfresh]

so what's the difference between shocks and struts?

 

[1moreMPH]

so are coilovers a cheap/bad way to lower your car and make handeling a bit better? cuz my friend just got me some from ebay...and i don't wanna put them on if they gonna suck or wear out something in the suspension....