which high compression pistion is better?
- Thread starter shanep5
- Start date
i think the one 9.8:1 set from protegegarge is forged and the j spec pistons are not.
but the j spec pistons do support more power, and if you were going to build a na motor, might as well just throw in the 10.4. i do not think forged pistons are a necessity for a NA set up. what i would do is get the j spec pistions, get them coated, then buy forged rods.
email protege gargage, they sell the j spec pistions, i just do not think they have it on their site. ken can help you with a package deal maybe if you wanted more than pistons.
but the j spec pistons do support more power, and if you were going to build a na motor, might as well just throw in the 10.4. i do not think forged pistons are a necessity for a NA set up. what i would do is get the j spec pistions, get them coated, then buy forged rods.
email protege gargage, they sell the j spec pistions, i just do not think they have it on their site. ken can help you with a package deal maybe if you wanted more than pistons.
justanothermp5
Banned
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- Rust Bucket
if u get teh j spec and are worried about them melting, i highly doubt they will, but u can get them coated, check out swaintech.com
they ceramic coat basically anything u want, its not that expensive either
they ceramic coat basically anything u want, its not that expensive either
jimmysuite
Member
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- 2003 Mazda Protege5
higher comp pistons *are* available on the market.... every piston manufacturer does custom compression ratios....its just a case of filling in a form with the relevant details and waiting a little bit longer for them to be made up for you.
well i blew my motor either its in the head or its the pistons im just looking for new pistons if i did fried mine and i want to keep it n/a and its daily driven. would the j-spec require a different rod or no. also would the intergal stage 2.5 or the stage 3 cam be to agressive for these pistons?
wont need different rods with jspec pistons....and the twiggy cams smash the integral cams anyway you slice it - and they work fine on stock pistons....so i doubt milder cams would be "too aggressive"
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
the 9.8:1 piston we carry is not forged, it is cast. couple things to consider here , and let me preface this by saying this is a good bit of my opinion.
if you have unlimited funds or a good sum of money at your disposal, get forged rods and a custom compression ratio above 10:1. you will need to go to premium gas, with or without tuning, and generally to get the most from this you'd want some head work if not cams as well. if you've got the money for it, spend it. horsepower achieved is directly proportional to dollars spent
if you don't have a lot of money to spend but still want a nice bump, keeping your stock rods and going with Jspec or our pistons will work fine. couple those with a set of cams and at some point some kind of tuning, it will be a definite improvement over the stock FS motor any day of the week. we can talk and debate all day long about the best route and best parts, but be honest with yourself first about your budget and your overall goals before making the plunge.
if you have unlimited funds or a good sum of money at your disposal, get forged rods and a custom compression ratio above 10:1. you will need to go to premium gas, with or without tuning, and generally to get the most from this you'd want some head work if not cams as well. if you've got the money for it, spend it. horsepower achieved is directly proportional to dollars spent
if you don't have a lot of money to spend but still want a nice bump, keeping your stock rods and going with Jspec or our pistons will work fine. couple those with a set of cams and at some point some kind of tuning, it will be a definite improvement over the stock FS motor any day of the week. we can talk and debate all day long about the best route and best parts, but be honest with yourself first about your budget and your overall goals before making the plunge.
thanks i am on a budget. i just want a little more zing and keep it relible. like i said if i blew the pistons i was just wondering which ones would be better to replace them with sense i gotta tear it apart anyways. do a have to use premium fuel with the j-spec and also i can use any of the intergal cams right? there not aggressive correct? or do absoutly head work to use the the more aggressive ones, i know it will help alot
cams are more important here than head work. Bigger cams will make up for SOME of the lack of flow in the protege head. At the end of the day there isn't a great deal that can be done by porting alone, and imho, oversized valves on all but the most REDICULOUS NA motor builds with the FS is going to be a waste of money. Reason why cams are critical? you can push larger overlap and bigger duration without compromising dynamic compression, because of the higher static compression. It would be more correct to say high compression pistons compliment/allow for bigger cams, than to say cams compliment the pistons - the pistons will work regardless - but large overlap cams with big duration will struggle if the compression isn't high enough.
As for cost - In my experience with wiesco and CP, custom pistons are not greatly more expensive than their off the shelf varieties - the biggest pain is the lead time to get them made. There are also other advantages to going with custom pistons, namely larger wrist pins (which of course would require a new set of rods - i'd recommend a set of forged long rods - the stock rods simply will not put up with absolutely spastic engine speeds, because the forces at play get absolutely insane when you start winding the engine up - we're mainly talking about piston accelleration here, the force that can and WILL cause rods rated to support 400hp on a turbo application fly apart at 190hp on an NA application - with spectacular results).
Truer words were never spoken - unfortunatly to get any sort of REASONABLE joy out of the FS all motor, you have to open your wallet. Its not a honda motor that can see tremendous power gains from the simplest of bolt ons. You as well as anyone know, the engine lends itself to turbo charging more than NA - the VERY poor rod ratio, relatively long stroke and massively under-square cylinder design is great for holding back the deto and running big boost, but it works in every single way against anyone who is serious about running a number on an NA motor.if you've got the money for it, spend it. horsepower achieved is directly proportional to dollars spent
You are right - we have no idea what kind of goals he's after here - i'd hazard a guess though, that 170, MAYBE 175hp would be the most you could expect from JDM pistons...and you would need something better than j-spec cams. Maybe its just because here Australia we're spoiled with higher compression pistons and JDM cams stock - a move for us to JDM pistons is nowhere near enough to make it worthwhile. My argument is that you've got the motor torn down, you're only going to want to tear it down ONCE - you might as well spend the dollars and build something that is going to be reliable, and support the most amount of power you can live with before driveability becomes an issue. I'm not saying everyone should go and invest tens of thousands of dollars in building a 200hp 9000rpm grenade - but the LITTLE (and it wouldn't be a great deal) bit of money spent while the engine is down, on custom pistons, forged long rods, and cams with a decent profile will save you the "I wish I did this better" in 3 months time when 160 whp becomes boring........
Mind you, it sucks owning a NA protege...theres really NO decent headers available, theres no decent IM available, theres no decent rod and piston kit available...unless you want to spend big dollars you're stuck with stuff that is really not fit for purpose...*sigh*
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The integral cams are more aggressive than stock, but they should be ok with stock pistons.... JDM pistons might make them a big happier due to the higher static comp...
Head work - big dollars there to do it right for NA - and if you just want a "bit of extra zing", a bit of port matching should be MORE than enough.
What budget are you on? like i said in my previous post, if you are pulling the engine apart, spend some money - that way you dont get buyers remorse and end up spending even more money pulling it apart again to make it the way you wanted it made in the first place....
i understand that high compression pistons compliment/allow for bigger cams and i dont want to tear it down again either it does sux owning a n/a protege (even a turbo protege) theres not alot of parts out there and i know i cant make big n/a power easy like a honda. . but where live theres not many proteges at all let alone a modded one there a msp and me that have seen thats it theres alot of hondas, dsms and srt-4s tho i like when people ask what is that i never seen one before. im just looking for more respect from them sense its a wagon. like i say if u beat me, u beat a wagon, if i beat u, i got beat by a wagon.
From the dyno, we've seen about 6+ hp (tuned, mind you) from FS-ZE pistons (like Lordworm, we get Japanese cams as stock), and about 10+ from cams. Port and polishing alone? Jack-crap. The cams are the biggest problem. Don't waste money on JDM... go for something more aggressive.
If you're looking for mild, don't take the stage 2.5 Integrals... I've got the Stage 2 and they're already on the big side for a motor without a bottom-end build and will affect your idle unless you dial in some retard with cam-gears (which cost too much). The Stage 2 should work right with 11:1 pistons, and the combo should give you a good 15-20 hp boost at the top-end.
I'm not sure whether to recommend getting the turbo or the NA ones, though... the NA ones have a lot of overlap, which makes for rough idling, but it's something that the high comp pistons should take care of.
Oh... and with all that, some form of fuel tuning is necessary to maximize power.
If you're looking for mild, don't take the stage 2.5 Integrals... I've got the Stage 2 and they're already on the big side for a motor without a bottom-end build and will affect your idle unless you dial in some retard with cam-gears (which cost too much). The Stage 2 should work right with 11:1 pistons, and the combo should give you a good 15-20 hp boost at the top-end.
I'm not sure whether to recommend getting the turbo or the NA ones, though... the NA ones have a lot of overlap, which makes for rough idling, but it's something that the high comp pistons should take care of.
Oh... and with all that, some form of fuel tuning is necessary to maximize power.
I don't really want to do any more parade raining - but there are other things to consider!
what kind of power do you want? - how much horsepower do you want to get at the hoops?
with NA its all about SWEPT VOLUME. we can't increase our displacement easilly, so we are stuck with increasing our engine speeds.
The problem with the pauter billet forged rods, are that they are stock length. You should consider increasing the rod length - by going to something like modified SR20 conrods - but these will require the pistons you are going to buy to be build with a larger wrist pin.
Theres plenty to consider here - not all of it costly, but you should really make sure all your ducks are in a row before you just go whipping out that credit card and ordering stuff! ...
good luck with it though....and if you need any information/suggestions - give me a yell.
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