What was Mazda/Callaway thinking with internals and EMS????? ::First impressions::

[03MSP86]

UPDATE::07/03/2012::3 MONTHS LATER::
I spoke way too soon. This car is amazing, and I have fixed or figured out most of the problems. Besides a slipping clutch, which obviously doesnt let me feel the full potential of the car.... READ ORIGINAL POST BELOW FOR ::FIRST IMPRESSIONS::

Whats up guys, New MSP owner here. I recently picked up 03 Black Mica MSP #86 in a trade for an LS/VTEC Civic coupe. (03MSP86.blogspot.com for the story and pictures of both cars) I picked it up with the turbo basically hanging off the Manifold. It was held on by 3 studs, which is actually 2 because 1 kept loosening. So 2 studs holding onto the turbo. Sounds like a great idea doesnt it?! So needless to say I didnt want to judge and count my chickens before digging in and getting that all clamped down properly. I did that this weekend..... So now let me say...... THIS THING IS WEAK!! lmfao I think the Civic was faster, smoother, and more reliable. But I needed a four door. Thats besides the point tho, MY POINT IS:: "What was Mazda/Callaway thinking with internals and EMS????" seriously now? I cant get on the throttle more than 1/2 way before 4k rpm because of the EMS and crazy bucking. No smoothness whatsoever. I mean obviously this will be fixed with SS-AFC but thats besides the point. The point is "What was Mazda/Callaway thinking with internals and EMS????" HAHAHA I really expected more. With more boost and more power obviously comes more problems. I expect to replace a turbo, maybe redo a block, even LSD, but man throw on top the bucking and your left with "WTF?" Clearly they just slapped a turbo on a Protege.....

What are you guys thoughts? Do you remember your first impressions of the car? And what do you feel made the biggest improvement? OBV SS-AFC?

Sorry if I offend any die hards, no bashing intended, I truely do love this vehicle, "after 10-15 grand of over night parts from JAPAN" HAHAH

 

[Spiced MSP]

the stock tune sucks. You will love it with the ssafc and some bolt ons. I know what you mean though. Before I got the ssafc a while back, I slowly started losing interest in the car. As soon as I picked up the afc and installed it, I fell in love with the car again. But now Im ready for the next level, stand alone EMS(after my build of course)

 

[03MSP86]

Took it on the highway, opened her up, and bucking scared the living poop out me! Now Ive slightly learned to control it, but It's a super boner tease. I got blue balls every gear hahahah

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

To sum up my impression... (Ten Years In The Making)

The car has Huge Potential.

The car was poorly thought out.

The car can be made the way it should have been fairly easily and cheap (compared to other platforms)

Please have a look at www.mp5t.com

there is a section on how to forge the motor.. There is also a section on how to install proper engine management.

 

[03MSP86]

To sum up my impression... (Ten Years In The Making)

The car has Huge Potential.

The car was poorly thought out.

The car can be made the way it should have been fairly easily and cheap (compared to other platforms)

Please have a look at www.mp5t.com

there is a section on how to forge the motor.. There is also a section on how to install proper engine management.

I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. MY EXACT THOUGHTS. The EMS and bucking is just horrible. I was so disappointed pulling onto the freeway and knowing if I hammer it Ill buck, as Im passed by a Tercel impressed by my turbo spooling and going no where until I can finally open up a little in 3rd hahaha

According to the previous owner he forged the internals but I wont know for certain until I do the oil pan gasket which it needs and be able to see rods. Which btw, would I be able to see if Pistons are really Wiseco's, as he claims, from underneath?

I plan on doing FMIC, real muffler, turbo and SS-AFC to go in with a proper tune, and have a LSD for a back up since I dont know if its stock, TIG, or Quaife. And obviously I might have to Forge it myself if hes a liar liar pants on fire hahahahah My goals are extreme reliability with accidental power coming from good parts working together, if you know what I mean. Not looking for outrageous numbers like anyone else.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

It is easy to see if he did forge the internals... Pull the oil pan and look up...

There is no gasket..

Just Black Gasket maker by Permitex.

It's a good way to check for metal in the pan as well as a general assessment of how regularly the original owner did maintenance.

PS. WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

 

[03MSP86]

It is easy to see if he did forge the internals... Pull the oil pan and look up...

There is no gasket..

Just Black Gasket maker by Permitex.

It's a good way to check for metal in the pan as well as a general assessment of how regularly the original owner did maintenance.

PS. WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

^^^^^^^EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO SEE!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH MAN! Im assuming Wiseco's will have stamping like that on the bottom?

 

[03MSP86]

But back to the topic at hand, what was Mazda thinking? I am so confused why they would just slap a turbo on a Protege and call it a day. And more importantly, what the hell is going on with the EMS? Am I going lean?, rich? overboost? Is it just me or doesnt that seem like some insane knocking and built in OEM motor blowing going down.

 

[destineal]

They didn't just slap a turbo on a protege and called it a day man geez.....
They threw a turbo AND a body kit on. Get it right.

 

[StealthWyvern]

I don't thinl people realise that whoever designed the car had a budget in mind...will poat more when I'm at a comp and not on a phone

 

[03MSP86]

Obviously they had budget in mind but this thing baffles me. Its a great car, and I love it, as long as I dont use boost. hahahah Dont get me wrong. It pulls nice when I control the boost. But again... They truly messed up on the engine and management. I understand having budget in mind. But if your looking to fill a performance niche, dont you think the car should at-least perform? I feel like Mazda really dropped the ball on R&D with this vehicle. They definitely hopped on the 2002 Fast and Furious bandwagon. And if youve seen my vinyls. Its definitely fact hahahah

 

[Ricktalife]

OP: Yes you have come across the famous MSP stock tune. However, it is magnified when the car has mods and still retains the stock tune. The factory ECU causes the car to run extremely rich, and the bucking is fuel cut. If you put a wideband on the car you it will be showing 10.0:1 AFR or 9's if it reads that low.

You can pick up a used SSAFC for a couple hundred and make the car pull a 180 in terms of performance. In the end, it's still a Protege and not a drag queen. Stick to the corners and you will be happy.

 

[destineal]

Might I suggest Borla as the muffler brand of choice?

 

[03MSP86]

Ya Ive heard of the infamous MSP stock tune. I just thought itd be a little bit more user friendly. I mean 50% throttle is really disappointing, but like I said, Im not looking for too much power. Reliability is the ultimate goal. I just want to be able to step on the gas without bucking. LoL

Honestly, A muffler, is a muffler, I plan on picking up a sleeper black eBay Protege cat back for like 140$ call it a day.

 

[destineal]

Y not get a stock muffler if they are the same.

 

[Ricktalife]

Just go to a performance shop and get a quote for a custom exhaust. Probably wouldn't be much more than that for the cat back and it would surely fit better than ebay.

 

[Toasty]

Took it on the highway, opened her up, and bucking scared the living poop out me! Now Ive slightly learned to control it, but It's a super boner tease. I got blue balls every gear hahahah

pretty much my exact reaction when i first got the buck. it didnt happen to me until about a year after i bought the car (this was around 2007) just after a full dealer service and tune up. lol. check out spark plugs. this helped a lot for me.

 

[03MSP86]

Stock Protege exhaust is a little small. And the MSP axle back is pretty rare and expensive plus mines in 8 pieces welded together w no resonators or muffler. SSSO with access to a welder and lift, its cheaper to put together a solid eBy catback in my case......

How'd you go a year with no problems?! Wouldn't it be evident from day 1?! I've heard plugs help. But it seems like covering a shotgun hole w a bandaid.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Check "Speed Circuit", they still stock actual Cat Backs..

 

[StealthWyvern]

Obviously they had budget in mind but this thing baffles me. Its a great car, and I love it, as long as I dont use boost. hahahah Dont get me wrong. It pulls nice when I control the boost. But again... They truly messed up on the engine and management. I understand having budget in mind. But if your looking to fill a performance niche, dont you think the car should at-least perform? I feel like Mazda really dropped the ball on R&D with this vehicle. They definitely hopped on the 2002 Fast and Furious bandwagon. And if youve seen my vinyls. Its definitely fact hahahah

No a single person is going to argue that! However its a pretty hard car to beat in the looks and handling department in stock form (at least for the half model to me). Mazdaspeed could of had a tiny budget but if they had designed it right like the srt4 neons they would of sold like hot cakes. The srt was only supposed to be made in a limited number around 5k like the MSP but demand was so high they ended up making roughly 25k iirc. Between the diff and lack of ability to tune the MSP compounded by the weak interals are the downfalls of the MSP.

I honestly think mazda started with a 2nd gen mp3 and then F&F came out and bam lets toss a turbo on on it call it a day. Thats the only logic i can think of behind the well designed appearance package and suspension but crappy drive train.

Car makers do some werid things. Take for example a 97 mercury msique. The engine in that car was originally co designed by prosche and had 170hp which is crazy for a 4 banger back in that time. Yet after it was all said and done the car only had 130hp like every other 4 banger. Never knew why they did that maybe not to hurt sales of the mustang *shrugs*.