What the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act means to you

[apocman]

I thought i would post about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This act provides consumers with rights they may not be aware of. I was reading my new copy of SportRider magazine http://www.sportrider.com and they have an article about people with modified bikes and then having problems and the dealer refusing to work on thier bike, due to them having modified thier bikes. Well, turns out they cannot do that. I suggest anybody really interested in this topic, go buy this copy of sport rider while it is still on the news stand.

In addition, even if they have explicit language in the warranty stating you are not to modify the car you still have legal grounds to persue for them to fix the unit, becuase the Federal Trade Commission takes a very dim view on what they call blanket denials.

This is a federal act so it does not matter what state you live in, as a matter of fact a lot of states have lemon laws that will help make a stronger case for you, inconjunction with the federal act.

It goes into great detail about even if you modified your bike or car the dealer cannot refuse you service. They are required to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the modfications actually caused the problem and a mechanic stating this is so, is not good enough. they have to prove vie producing the damaging results from an engineering study (wonder how much that would cost them) Also, they cannot tell you that you have to use them or thier products to keep the warranty valid.

I do not do the article justice, so i stress again to go buy the magazine it looks like this http://www.sportrider.com/toc/....

Apoc

 

[Turbo Matty P]

while this is MOSTLY true, it all boils down to your ability to ACTUALLY GET THE DEALERSHIP/MANUFACTURER INTO THE COURTROOM.

I spent 6 months trying to get Mazda in the courtroom only to dump the M/M Act on them....it didn't work. They have deeper pockets than any of use ever will. They will hold out until you're broke from paying legal retainers....for me that was only 6 months! While this is a nice ACT (not law) it will only work for you once you actually sit in front of the judge. Good luck getting to that point.

 

[rktktpaul]

Oohh, Matty posts on Magnuson-Moss in record time again, lol!! Like you said, its an act and not a law, which doesn't make it clear cut.

 

[apocman]

while this is MOSTLY true, it all boils down to your ability to ACTUALLY GET THE DEALERSHIP/MANUFACTURER INTO THE COURTROOM.

I spent 6 months trying to get Mazda in the courtroom only to dump the M/M Act on them....it didn't work. They have deeper pockets than any of use ever will. They will hold out until you're broke from paying legal retainers....for me that was only 6 months! While this is a nice ACT (not law) it will only work for you once you actually sit in front of the judge. Good luck getting to that point.

Sorry to hear that T Matty, The fact that this is an act is very important. A Federal Act is very powerful and can bring down extreme penalties up to and including criminal charges for failure to comply i.e. OSHA & the SEC use acts to govern laws for example: the SEC would use the Sarbanes Oxley Act to prosecute corrupt executives (ENRON etc.) OSHA would use certian acts to convict companies for failure to properly protect thier employees etc.

You are right in the fact if you decide to go to litigation, then you must be prepared to fight a "possible" long battle. I would talk to my attorney and see if he or she would be willing to fight the case on a cost that you both could agree to. Example: would they take a retainer fee up front then the rest from the settlement of the case.

The consumer can win if they hold their ground and fight and dont give in. Of course, that can not always be the case, such as your case.

Again Im am sorry to hear the results of your case, but I hope people fight until they have a resolution they can agree to and use all of these Rules & Regulations to their benefits.

P.S. it also has a lot to do with the ability and effectiveness of ones attorney, on what type outcome prevails.

Apoc

 

[rktktpaul]

Unfortunately, there have been a number of threads here and on other boards with the same result as Matty. M/M does not seem to have been very effective in most cases.

 

[Turbo Matty P]

Sorry to hear that T Matty, The fact that this is an act is very important. A Federal Act is very powerful and can bring down extreme penalties up to and including criminal charges for failure to comply i.e. OSHA & the SEC use acts to govern laws for example the SEC would use the Sarbanes Oxley Act to prosecute corrupt executives (ENRON etc.) OSHA would use certian acts to convict companies for failure to properly protect thier employees etc.

You are right in the fact if you decide to go to litigation, then you must be prepared to fight a "possible" long battle. I would talk to my attorney and see if he or she would be willing to fight the case on a cost that you both could agree to. Example: would they take a retainer fee up front then the rest from the settlement of the case.

The consumer can win if they hold their ground and fight and dont give in. Of course, that can not always be the case, such as your case.

Again Im am sorry to hear the results of your case, but I hope people fight until they have a resolution they can agree to and use all of these Rules & Regulations to their benefits.

P.S. it also has a lot to do with the ability and effectivenes of ones attorney, on what type outcome prevails.

Apoc

Thanks for the support, but you're wrong man. I had two attorneys working for me,....one for free. I had a law professor from alabama and a consumer affairs "mainly dealing with auto's" attorney. they oth told me the same thing:

Mazda will never see the inside of a coutroom. We can't wait them out. They will keep making motions to post-pone the trial etc. I agree in the power of the M/M act, but actually getting to use it is an entirely different story.

Anyone else tried to get mazda in the courtroom or am I the only one?

 

[Turbo Matty P]

p.s. I live to see threads like this started! Maybe I can save someone else $6K in legal fees.

 

[Formula1]

Mag Moss

M/M federal warranty act is usually only used in conjuction with other laws i.e Lemon Law, Breach of Warranty (implied & expressed) blah blah blah for only 1 reason: So that the attorney can have his legal fees payed by the manufacturer. M/M is sooooo vague, it is almost a joke. I used to settle lemon law cases for General Motors. This is the order in which lemon law attorneys go for:
1. Lemon Law 2. Breach of Warranty 3. M/M Federal Warranty Act. The first two are made to win and the 3rd one (M/M) ensures their pay! But, even better than that, not only was I paying the plaintiff's attorney fees but the client was paying them too! Double dipping attorney's. Damn scum bags are stealing from their own clients! LOL Anyway, forget about going after any manufacturer with just M/M, it is just too easy to interpret.

 

[apocman]

Thanks for the support, but you're wrong man. I had two attorneys working for me,....one for free. I had a law professor from alabama and a consumer affairs "mainly dealing with auto's" attorney. they oth told me the same thing:

Mazda will never see the inside of a coutroom. We can't wait them out. They will keep making motions to post-pone the trial etc. I agree in the power of the M/M act, but actually getting to use it is an entirely different story.

Anyone else tried to get mazda in the courtroom or am I the only one?

Matty, It sounds you had a very good legal team. How long did you fight the case and what was thier reason for stating Mazda would never see inside of a courtroom other than they would continue with motions to post-pone. Did your legal team request to deny the motions? and if so, what was the response from the judge. I would hope the judge could see through stall tatics.

Matty, I am not trying to be a jerk, i am just courious. I can understand completely the way you feel and I would feel the same way, if this happened to me. I hope other than this horrible event, everything else turned out alright with youre ability to make repairs of your MSP.

Apoc

 

[Turbo Matty P]

tah-dah!! now do you guys believe me??

Hey Formula...how often does a lone individual like myself actually get a manufacterer into a courtroom? 1 out of 10 times?? Just gimme a number.

 

[Turbo Matty P]

oh uh...apoc...no offense taken man...EVER. I'm seriously the most laidback guy you'll ever know. As for my situation: my lawyers kept requesting a written denial of my warranty. They said it's on the way. Never showed. After 4 requests for written denials my attorneys demanded a time-dated letter stating how my modifications or driving caused my problems. Mazda said they received the request and it was on it's way. 3 weeks later (the limit was 3 days, we even offered to pay for expediated shipping) still no written word from mazda. They acted as if they didn't know who I was. My attorneys informed me before this even happened that they would try these exact stall tactics. since I had nothing in writting I was unable to yet file for a court date, much less have a judge assigned. Remember the hard part is GETTING THEM INTO COURT!! We sent them letter after letter, we made phone calls and I even picketed the dealerships (I was threatened with being arrested). Attorneys basically told me I was spending money and not getting anything done....I could continue on, but the repairs to engine cost 1/3 what my legal expenses were at this point ($2200 could get me a new block and forged internals--I owed over $6K in legal fees)

With this info I contacted my dealer and told them that this was the final straw. they either took care of me or I was taking everyone to court.

 

[Formula1]

Matty,

99.9% of ALL cases (Demand letters & Filed law suits) NEVER ever see a court room!!!! They are all settled or denied.... It is funny, I always used to say that time was my #1 weapon! Theory: I have to be here working on this case when at the same time cust is struggling everyday without a car. Eventually the cust will just give up!

I have tons if info on the industry. If you hav any further questions, I am more than willing to share my knowledge!

John

 

[Turbo Matty P]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!

thank you for verfiying and setting in stone what I've been telling these fools this past year.

 

[CarlM2]

Was there not a clause in the letters to Mazda saying something like "if you don't respond we assume you are purposely prolonging this procedure and admit guilt."... or something like that?

 

[monkeymsp]

I admit I know nothing about the legal process. But, it seems to me that there are enough of these cases out there that people could pool their resources to fight the legal battle. Anyone ever seen the animated movie Antz?

 

[Turbo Matty P]

no, that is presumptuous and will not hold up in any court. CarlM2, by not giving me your money you are admitting to being selfish and unwilling to help others. You just can't make claims and assumptions like that. I understand what you are trying to get across. We mentioned that they had (2 weeks, then 1 week, then 3 days) with which to respond back in wiriting and they told us everytime that they had and for me to be patient and I would get the letter shortly.....4 months AFTER this is all settled and I STILL havent seen anything in writting. They are crooks.

 

[spacemonkey]

Is there any lawyers that own a MSP. Maybe they can help people like us. I remember there one guy on the forums who specialized in this stuff...

 

[Formula1]

Now that I don't work for GM anymore, I can give whatever advice can help out! (no conflict of interest!) (nana)

Anyway, I have settled over 700 lemon law cases with GM and spent >7,000,000.00 of GM's money on these settlements!

Hit me up whenever you guys need any advise. (From the manufacturers perspective). (evil)


John

 

[MazdaSpeeder00]

Here ya go peeps .... http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm

Enjoy lol

 

[Turbo Matty P]

wow....never seen that before....you might wish to take a moment and read some of my previous posts.