"turkey" Day
- Thread starter spacemonkey
- Start date
Got the Ion 3" Turboback and FMIC installed this week, and the turkey is there, though quite a bit different. It is louder and slower, but it is now more annoying than ever. I have the Ingen and stock BPV. Trying to figure out what the best route is to go to fix this problem, but after reading all the threads, I am more confused than ever. I dont want to go the BOV route, and prefer to stick with a BPV. Was going to try running a dedicated vacuum source to the BPV, but from what Ive read that wont make a difference? Does anyone have a working non-turkey setup with just a BPV??
Thanks,
Six
Thanks,
Six
kNOWfREED0m
Member
- :
- MSP
its surge, and the surge is not good for our turbos, the air is shooting back into the turbo, and the turbo blades are chopping the air up making the turkey sound, therefore after it turkeys, it takes longer to spool up again. This back-surge of air into our turbo blade, will in time damage the turbo, buy loosening it to its fitting, because of all the back-pressure hitting it. Ive seen it happen to my dad's 87 Grand national, he was running 30 psi with the turkey, he sold the car, 4 months later the guy who bought it came back saying the turbo blades are loose, he took it to a turbo specialist, and behold it was the back-surge of air repetatly hitting the turbo in the wrong direction. im pretty sure thats the deal with all our MSP's turkey, i could be wrong of course, but i dobut it. The solution, a bigger, dual bov-bpv with softer springs, up the boost, tighten the springs. thx
jersey_emt
Member
- :
- 04 MSM #1089
I think the turkey is compressor surge due to the placement of the stock BPV. It's at the wrong angle...the air coming back towards the turbo goes up through the intercooler, and then has to make a sharp bend to flow through the BPV and back into the intake.
Air will take the path of least resistance....most of it is going to flow back to the turbo and cause surge.
With my new hardpipes and dual BOV/BPV setup, there is a *tiny* bit of turkey at lower RPMs, but that's because the BOV is too tight. Shifting at high RPMS, I get absolutely NO turkey at all. I also have no issues stalling, even if I rev high and shift into neutral and let the RPMs drop, it doesn't stall out.
On my setup, the stock BPV is placed off the IC->TB pipe, and the GReddy BOV is on the turbo->IC pipe, but at a better angle.
Air will take the path of least resistance....most of it is going to flow back to the turbo and cause surge.
With my new hardpipes and dual BOV/BPV setup, there is a *tiny* bit of turkey at lower RPMs, but that's because the BOV is too tight. Shifting at high RPMS, I get absolutely NO turkey at all. I also have no issues stalling, even if I rev high and shift into neutral and let the RPMs drop, it doesn't stall out.
On my setup, the stock BPV is placed off the IC->TB pipe, and the GReddy BOV is on the turbo->IC pipe, but at a better angle.
GA_MZDASPEED
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Speed
IT'S NOT ******* COMPRESSOR SURGE!!!!!!!!
Air has mass......when the BPV opens it vents the pressure AT the BPV and the causes an immediate localized pressure drop.......when the localized pressure falls enough the valve begins to close again..........now...since air has mass it takes a fraction of a second to equalize the pressure(where it was lower ....AT the BPV)....are the surge-ites paying attention..........when the pressure equalizes everywherein the intake tract (at the BPV again) it will cause it to open wider again...........= flutter.....another reason this happens is because the diaphram in the valve is very light....an thus...thats right THUS ...it reacts QUICKLY.....magnifying it propensity to flutter.......this is the best design for out cars (either a BOV or BPV w/ a diaphram) it's light nature combined w/ our relitively small turbos and light pressures it is the perfect set-up to reduce bogging between shifts.....even the RACING BPV BY FORGE HAS FLUTTER.
Reply if you wish.......but i wont respond.(if you are disagreeing....oh...and WRONG).......
IT'S BPV VALVE FLUTTER
that s all i have to say
and...................................i'm spent!
Air has mass......when the BPV opens it vents the pressure AT the BPV and the causes an immediate localized pressure drop.......when the localized pressure falls enough the valve begins to close again..........now...since air has mass it takes a fraction of a second to equalize the pressure(where it was lower ....AT the BPV)....are the surge-ites paying attention..........when the pressure equalizes everywherein the intake tract (at the BPV again) it will cause it to open wider again...........= flutter.....another reason this happens is because the diaphram in the valve is very light....an thus...thats right THUS ...it reacts QUICKLY.....magnifying it propensity to flutter.......this is the best design for out cars (either a BOV or BPV w/ a diaphram) it's light nature combined w/ our relitively small turbos and light pressures it is the perfect set-up to reduce bogging between shifts.....even the RACING BPV BY FORGE HAS FLUTTER.
Reply if you wish.......but i wont respond.(if you are disagreeing....oh...and WRONG).......
IT'S BPV VALVE FLUTTER
that s all i have to say
and...................................i'm spent!
GA_MZDASPEED
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Speed
see above....will not respond if disareeing = wrong = you
GA_MZDASPEED
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Speed
I'll even accept the fact the I may be wrong (but your still not right!!!! hahaha)......there is a possibility the piping is the culprit.......
BUT IS STILL NOT SURGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT IS STILL NOT SURGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nickbachman
Member
- :
- 03 MSP Black Mica
here it is. 100% definite. straight from an expert. you heard it here first.
GA_MZDASPEED said:
lol, dude, simma down now.
OK.....try this big guy, take off your bov, gone, remove it......still get turkey? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ive done this twice now to prove a point and ill make a flippin video if you want, w/ no bov, the turkey is the exact same.
jersey_emt
Member
- :
- 04 MSM #1089
GA_MZDASPEED said:
Ditto on everyone commenting on when you take off the BPV it still flutters.
So it absolutely is NOT BPV flutter!!
It IS compressor surge, because I now have a better flowing BOV setup, and get NO TURKEY!!!
kNOWfREED0m
Member
- :
- MSP
constant surge on our turbos WILL damage them i mean not a year of surge i mean like 4-5 months or the turkey, will loosen our turbos, if you have a turkey, its wise to get a dual bov/bpv set-up before it ends up ******* up ur turbo
spacemonkey
Member
- :
- Mazdaslow
Okay considering the stock setup has the turkey (compressor surge)....meaning all MSp are prone to turbo breakage in 4-5 months....im gonna call BS on this. I've had mine since september and no broken T25R here. And how many MSP out there have the dual BPV/BOV setup...not many and those who dont arent reporting any broken turbos.
Update. Just working on my buddy CA18DET on his 240 and we took off the BOV to get compressor surge. Yes it sounded like the turkey so we ended up calling a few Nissan guys and PM some guys in Japan to see if this is harmful to the CA18DET. Yes, he really wants the turkey (even if it is compressor surge). The response was that the car was designed with compression surge (even with stock BPV) and at stock boost (7psi) is okay and wont major damage the compressor blades or the turbine (not as harmful as many believe). If you run 30psi then yes it will hurt the punny T25. A personal friend ran with no BOV at stock boost for a long time. Dont know if this info appply to the MSP. Compressor surge is a good possibility but its not as serious as many make it out to be...especially at 6.5psi. common you think Mazda would release a car with compressor surge and by the claims of some people will damage the turbo? You think that MAzda really likes to replace and do warrenty work for the T25s? I think no,t so if it is compressor surge its not as bad a many say.
As you can see I upgraded to a Forge BOV with the loosest/sofest spring possbile and I still get the flutter. I know its better flowing then the stock BPV and it seems to flutter louder and more. I gonna get a HKS BOV soon and run 2 BOV...that should bleed enough air to get rid of compressor surge if it is. Will keep you guys up to date...
Here is a clip of my car with the BOV: http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/forgeBOVdriveBy.AVI
Update. Just working on my buddy CA18DET on his 240 and we took off the BOV to get compressor surge. Yes it sounded like the turkey so we ended up calling a few Nissan guys and PM some guys in Japan to see if this is harmful to the CA18DET. Yes, he really wants the turkey (even if it is compressor surge). The response was that the car was designed with compression surge (even with stock BPV) and at stock boost (7psi) is okay and wont major damage the compressor blades or the turbine (not as harmful as many believe). If you run 30psi then yes it will hurt the punny T25. A personal friend ran with no BOV at stock boost for a long time. Dont know if this info appply to the MSP. Compressor surge is a good possibility but its not as serious as many make it out to be...especially at 6.5psi. common you think Mazda would release a car with compressor surge and by the claims of some people will damage the turbo? You think that MAzda really likes to replace and do warrenty work for the T25s? I think no,t so if it is compressor surge its not as bad a many say.
As you can see I upgraded to a Forge BOV with the loosest/sofest spring possbile and I still get the flutter. I know its better flowing then the stock BPV and it seems to flutter louder and more. I gonna get a HKS BOV soon and run 2 BOV...that should bleed enough air to get rid of compressor surge if it is. Will keep you guys up to date...
Here is a clip of my car with the BOV: http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/forgeBOVdriveBy.AVI
Last edited:
DSMConvert
AWD...say Bye Bye
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- Titanium MS6
its not surge, and whoever thinks it is surge is either a ricer, or very new to the turbo scene...compressor surge doesn't just make a noise, it also cause the car to kick and the boost gague to go flicker crazy...though I will admit internal wastegates are crap, they are sufficient to deal with the small amount of cfm at low boost that our turbos are capable of...now as state earlier I believe its a combination of things, but Im not cock sure so I wont say Im positive, just Im merely highly confident based on my 5+ yrs experience with turbos..
