Trackpipe/Downpipe n00b...any help from Speed6 Gurus?

[dterranova]

...not even sure if this is the right section, but here goes: I've had my 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 for over a year now. The only bolt-on mods I've done in that time were a Mazdaspeed CAI and a TrboXS Hybrid BOV. I got caught up in the whole 'lower your s*** until you can't drive it' thing but I've realized that my car is and AWD turbo'd vehicle that should be driven with a little more 'spirit'.

Anywho, I want to start off with a downpipe. Corksport has their trackpipe and downpipe, but I'm unsure of the difference? I've done SOME research and I've seen these things come up more than once, which is why I will post them here:

-turbo seals blown after dp install
-tuning...is it a must for a downpipe?
-the install is a PITA...how much have you (if you did) paid a shop to do this?

Any input is appreciated, and please remember I'm coming here to ask you guys because I fully admit that...

...and would like to learn from you guys. If you want to be an asshole, that's cool too lol.

 

[dterranova]

seriously...50+ views and no one can drop a line? come on guys...

 

[burkerre]

I haven't done the DP install on the speed6 so I can't say from personal experience. But what I can tell you from what I've heard is that the DP is the biggest power gain on the car. However, once the DP is put on some people needed to upgrade their fuel pump internals because they were hitting fuel cut which is not good. At the very least you should get a dashhawk to monitor what your car is doing with the DP, but to get maximum gains from the downpipe you should really get an AP or tune so that you can optimize your power. Also installation of DP's on almost any car is a pain because it is an awkward position for getting the bolts between the turbo and DP.

 

[Empurfektion]

Quick and Easy

You could always do what I did.... drill out the pre-cat
But since you're out in Cali, you probably have emissions. Here in Ohio, we don't have them so I don't have to worry about it. WOOT!

But in all honesty, I'd go with whatever you wanted (JUST NOT EBAY s***) and YES for the tune afterward. Oh, you should go for a high flow cat, or a test pipe (emissions issue tho) for better sound and slight performance. You'll also be able to tune it with a Cobb if you decide to go that route (that's what I have and LOVE it).

 

[dterranova]

I haven't done the DP install on the speed6 so I can't say from personal experience. But what I can tell you from what I've heard is that the DP is the biggest power gain on the car. However, once the DP is put on some people needed to upgrade their fuel pump internals because they were hitting fuel cut which is not good. At the very least you should get a dashhawk to monitor what your car is doing with the DP, but to get maximum gains from the downpipe you should really get an AP or tune so that you can optimize your power. Also installation of DP's on almost any car is a pain because it is an awkward position for getting the bolts between the turbo and DP.

...and you HAVEN'T done this yet? lol you seem like you should! I have heard MULTIPLE things about the issues that come with the dp, yours is a slightly different version. Thanks for the input!

You could always do what I did.... drill out the pre-cat
But since you're out in Cali, you probably have emissions. Here in Ohio, we don't have them so I don't have to worry about it. WOOT!

But in all honesty, I'd go with whatever you wanted (JUST NOT EBAY s***) and YES for the tune afterward. Oh, you should go for a high flow cat, or a test pipe (emissions issue tho) for better sound and slight performance. You'll also be able to tune it with a Cobb if you decide to go that route (that's what I have and LOVE it).

Yeah I don't want to mess with the stock one because I like having the parts ready for back-up. What I was planning on doing was getting the Corksport Trackpipe, Cobb AP, and then "swap out the stock oil feed bolt with a smaller diameter feed hole."

I referenced another forum for this information, ****************.org. You can't access this page without becoming a member, so here are a couple of paragraphs explaining my concerns:

"General:The downpipe on your Mazdaspeed vehicle (whether it's a gen1 MS3, gen 2 MS3 or MS6) is the first part of your exhaust coming off of the turbo. The stock or OEM downpipe on your vehicle contains one catalytic converter. Replacing your downpipe is a common upgrade that results in some very impressive power gains over your restrictive OEM unit, while giving your car a louder, more aggressive exhaust note.

Warning: It has been seen that after upgrading to a 3" downpipe that some vehicles will end up with smoking turbos. This is because of the reduced back-pressure on the turbo seals, which allows some oil to pass by. There are several easy fixes to resolve this issue, the first and simplest fix is to raise the idle on your vehicle through your tuning software. Another simple fix is to swap out the stock oil feed bolt with a smaller diameter feed hole, @bnoon makes and sells these bolts."

...and then this:

"Things you NEED to know: Downpipes for Mazdaspeed vehicles are manufactured in two different styles. The first style is generally referred to as just a "3inch downpipe", these units will replace your original downpipe and ONLY the original piece (these are generally coupled to a "race pipe" or "test pipe" *SEE DIAGRAM ABOVE*which removes your secondary catalytic converter). The other style is known as a "Long downpipe" or "Full downpipe", meaning the new part will replace BOTH your stock downpipe and also your stock "race/test pipe".

Downpipes are generally sold with two options. They are referred to as either being cat-less or as having a high flow cat (the term cat refers to a catalytic converter). A cat-less downpipe is exactly what it sounds like, it replaces your OEM piece with a new 3" downpipe possessing NO catalytic converters. One possessing a High Flow Cat, also, is exactly what it sounds like, it replaces your stock restrictive cat for a more efficient, higher flowing unit. Generally, cat-less downpipes provide a few more peak ponies and a more aggressive exhaust notes than pieces with a high flow cat, BUT at the risk of the car receiving a CEL (Check Engine Light). Note: If a downpipe contains a high flow cat it is generally a "Long/Full downpipe".

However, there are ways to help prevent this CEL by extending your rear/second o2 sensor away from the main flow of exhaust through the downpipe. Some manufacturers include these fixes with their products, while others do not.
Commonly spark plug de-foulers are used. The first is left alone and the second is drilled out to 1/2", seen here:" PICTURE FOLLOWS.

Can anyone provide insight on these issues/solutions?

 

[burkerre]

smoking turbo is unfortunately common, but putting on a DP doesn't nessecarily cause it, it just allows you to see it because the exhaust isn't getting filtered. The bnoon bolt works sometimes, other people will use a higher weight oil (5w-40), and finally some people will riase their idle. All of these have success stories, and failure stories so do whichever makes you most comfortable.

If you dont have to worry about emissions then you can use the AP to clear and disable to CEL for the o2 sensor. Even if you do have to pass emissions I think you are allowed 1 or 2 disabled codes (might wanna check). The o2 sims and bungs again seem to be hit or miss for people. It usually all depends on driving style and the climate where the car is being driven.

I haven't done the DP yet because I was holding off until I got a full time job and figured out where I would be living. Since I am staying in ohio, I will probably do the DP and fuel pump internals over the summer, but I will still be getting the high-flow cat DP.

 

[dterranova]

...what if I just get the AP, bnoon bolt, raise my idle, and get the higher weight oil? Wouldn't that (in a sane world) mean I'm covering all bases? Also, if you read the 2nd set of text I copied, they mention extending the O2 sensor...any input on that?

 

[burkerre]

those are the bungs I was talking about. It basically just moves the o2 sensor out of the flow stream, but it still reads. I mean you can do all that. Or just upgrade the turbo Or just get the DP and install it, and see what happens, not every turbo smokes. But definitely get an AP before the DP, and probably invest in 1 or 2 step colder spark plugs and an upgraded fuel pump. I also will recommend the Shell Rotella t6 5w-40 oil, its been proven to be one of the best for our cars.

 

[dterranova]

...hmmm okay that was something I needed to clearly hear: get the AP BEFORE the dp. Dually noted lol! What fuel pump do you recommend for our car? And what spark plugs? As I stated this is all new to me, so I prefer to go of your guys' experiences. Since I'm doing the oil son, I'll switch now?

 

[burkerre]

yeap if your doing your oil just drain it and put the better stuff in now. For the fuel pump you have a few options, you can buy the internals (cheaper option) from KMD or cp-e i think, or just but the higher flowing fuel pump. Spark plugs I'd go with one or two step colder plugs. If you want Denso's they are the ITV22 (1-step colder) or ITV24 (2-step colder), or the NKG iridiums are fine too, but they need to be gapped before putting them in. There are a ton of threads that have step by step instructions, just do a google search and a ton of info will come up. Hope this helps

 

[speed666]

the downpipe is not that dificult imo. the fuel pump internals are way easer, like 30min easy.. figure 2 hrs on dp.

 

[dterranova]

Thanks burkerre! You've helped me answer a ton of questions!

speed666 - ...are you sure you don't mean track pipe? All signs point to downpipe being very difficult...

 

[spfskyline]

The dp isn't too difficult if you have all the tools. It is time consuming and if you need your car the next day or two you better start early. I had a ton of issues that probably are not common. The turbo was probably replaced prior to my owning her as the stock dp was attached to with 4/5 bolts. 3 were cross threaded and 1 broke off on the way out. We drilled out the stock bolt and re-tapped all the threads. Broke a damn tap off in one after all that. No way to get that out, so 4/5 ain't bad I guess... Without a lift it probably would have sucked to unbolt the motor mounts and rock the motor to remove stock parts. Otherwise the install is straight forward. As for the smoking turbo thing... the dp makes the issue more prevalent, if you had it before. I never really had it before dp. After I did if I idled for a long time. I switched to 10w40 oil, now 0w40 and no issue. Plan on getting a oil catch can at some point. Do some research and you will find lots of solutions to the issue. Mazda recently sent out a notice that they would replace the turbos if the car is under warranty too. You definitely need a tune for dp, AP is the preferred way.

The trackpipe (race pipe or test pipe) just replaces the 2nd cat with straight pipe. If you have AP, you may be able to get away with stage 2, but it is very hit and miss and you definitely won't get the same power as with a dp. I've done both and the trackpipe is OK, but I just never trusted the tune.

I don't have internals (on the wish list), but ********** sells the KMD and AutoTech internals. PTP sells internals too, but they have had issues in the past. CP-e sells prebuilt pumps with a core charge. Internals seem like the way to go as CP-e, while nice, are expensive for what appears to be a simple mod to do.

 

[ms6_nate]

Okay so I just finished installing a 3" DP yesterday. It was in fcat a massive PITA but its done. The two most difficult things are getting at some of the bolt, and fitting the massive CAT out of the space that is too small to remove it from. I rocked engine forward with the RMM undone, and two people with prybars pryed the CAT out between the manifold and A/C lines, once the CAT's heatshileds were bent and pryed off LOL. I guess a brand new MS6 would be better, mine only has 73000km and the rusty bolts sucked. I had one bolt holding the turbo on break and one cross thread.

Now the upside. The thing sounds awesome, and works much better. As much of a PITA it was, it was well worth it. I also have the Cobb AP, and am now running the Stage 2 91 CRI+TIH map... soon to install a 3.25" B+P TMIC hompefully. IN re: the smoking turbo issue.... I just did an oil change to 5W50 Quakerstate Q Horsepower, just a prefered oil, and I have no smoking turbo so far.... Any questions, dont hesitate to PM me.