Tell me what you think of my setup!

[BKJT05]

Hey everyone, i just wanted to get some ? anwsers and hear some opinions on my future setup....All opinions welcome...

Pics attached of the products im getting...

Alpine CDE-9852...Head Unit

SPR-57LS
5x7" Component 2-Way Speaker Set...Front Speakers

SPR-17LP
6-1/2" Coaxial 2-Way Speaker...Rear Speakers

>>>^^^ thats the setup im going to go with, already have the cd player, will pay $230 for all the speakers on ebay.

Now my ??? is...I dont plan on purchasing a Amp to power the component system up front, Will the alpine head unit push enough power to make it sound good?

Any Suggestions??

 

[BKJT05]

Anybody got any opinions?

 

[II-Savy]

I'll chime in here...

Over all oval speakers suck, round is always better. Will 6's fit in there?

In addition you should amp the fronts for the best sound. The amp inside of head units is very small. Even a headunit rated at 50x4 say...isn't really pushing much real clean power to the speakers. Even a small say 30 or 40 watt amp pushing the fronts would be cool.

 

[BKJT05]

yes they make a adapter to put in 6inch speakers, thats probably what i will do. im thinking i will run the tweeters up the the door pilars and cut and fit them there, no amp right now, but when the money comes ill upgrade to a amp. right now my stereo sucks, i bet this setup will be night and day difference...

 

[chuyler1]

No, there is no discernable difference between round and oval speakers...or at least not something the human ear can detect driving 30+ mph in a car.

My $0.02...

Ditch the rear speakers. You don't need them. Instead, invest in a 2-ch amplifier for the components. Later you can add another amp and subwoofer if you feel you don't have enough bass.

 

[Poseur]

I'll chime in here...

Over all oval speakers suck, round is always better. Will 6's fit in there?

False. the noticeable difference between oval and round isthat the oval speakers will better fill thehole, taking advantage of more cone area for more bass responce.

hmm, well I guess chuyler beat me.... basically, yea, what he said....

Leave your stockers off hu power in the back, get a decent amp and some fronts that you like, and you're set.

 

[BKJT05]

thanks everybody, yea im bidding on a alpine amp to power the component system, i had a alpine type x sub about a month ago, but it was way too much bass for me, and my highs, mids etc wernt good enough to sound right, i got a ??? for all you, im good with car audio, have done maybe 10 systems, but is installing the amp to the component speakers the same as installing a sub package, also any ideas where to mount the tweeters??? Also why should i ditch the rear speakers, wouldent that just add the the surround sound goal, or whatever? THANKS

heres the amp im trying to get, cheap and effective, tell me what you think...

Alpine MRP-F250

The 360-watt MRP-F250 amplifier is part of a line-up of V-Power amplifiers that are the best selling amplifiers in their class! Ready to deliver high dollar per watt performance, clean and reliable power output and an aggressive new cosmetic look, the MRP-F250 meets more than just your power needs. Rugged new heat sinks ensure lower temperature and optimum performance for non-stop output. Even during extreme power demands , the music will keep coming. With massive amounts of power at low distortion, youll enjoy cleaner bass, the way its meant to be heard.

SPECS...
CEA-2006 Power Rating
CEA-2006 Power Rating (40hm@14.4V = 1%THD+N), S/N 80dBA (Ref. 1W into 4Ohm): 40W x 4

RMS Power (at 14.4V THD+N, 20Hz-20kHz)
Per channel into 4 ohms: 40W x 4 (0.08% THD)
Per channel into 2 ohms: 50W x 4
Brigded 4 ohms: 180W x 2

 

[II-Savy]

Wow ok. How about this. Why are all home speakers made with round speakers? Do your research on line. Round is better 100% of the time period. I learned this years ago while at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

Rockford</st1laceName> <st1laceName w:st="on">Fosgate</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">University.</st1laceType> Look at ANY real competition system and there will not be one oval speaker in the car.<O</O

 

[II-Savy]

Don't ditch the rears but you do want front stage first then rears.
Rule of thumb - Front stage, rear fill.

When you go to a concert you always face the music.

 

[BKJT05]

good point about the concert, i think i will just listen to all your guys help and start with the front and work my way to the back, then maybe a single 10inch subwoofer later down the road. something to add a lil bass...ill have to get a new head unit if i do that cause mine only has 1 output so, i might just get a dvd player if i do switch...

 

[woodstockstr]

what i would do is just save and do it all at once. componets up front and a good set of coax in the back. you DONT need a amp for the front. if you want it louder than get a amp. listen wihout a amp first. you may be happy with how it sounds and save you 4 or 5 hundred dollars.

 

[yeloprofan]

also any ideas where to mount the tweeters???

You could make some little mounts like I did. The audio guru's will probably say to mount the tweets as close to your main drivers as possible. But I like the look of these and they sound fine to me. besides with the Alpine deck you can tune the system anyways.

 

[BKJT05]

well money wise i can get front component, rears and amp on ebay brand new for about $275...thats not bad to me. right now if im on the interstate or something i have to turn it way up to hear cause the stock sucks, just barely hearable.

 

[BKJT05]

You could make some little mounts like I did. The audio guru's will probably say to mount the tweets as close to your main drivers as possible. But I like the look of these and they sound fine to me. besides with the Alpine deck you can tune the system anyways.

how much and how hard were those to make??? i was thinking about just putting the tweeters in the door pilars... but i do like the custom look you got so idk...

 

[II-Savy]

An amp for the front would be really the best way to go if you have the cash. Dude even if you went with a nice conservitive 4 channel amp first for the front and rear, it will make a big diff.
THEN later you get a sub amp and a nice 10 inch...you'd be set.

...about the tweets - treble(sp?) is directional, bass is not. So the highs need to be facing you / pointing at you to get all you can out of them.

 

[chuyler1]

Wow ok. How about this. Why are all home speakers made with round speakers? Do your research on line. Round is better 100% of the time period. Look at ANY real competition system and there will not be one oval speaker in the car.<o></o>

If you are going to frequent the audio forums on this site we need to get a few things straight.

First, 99% of the people here do not plan to compete with their car stereos. Just about anything you suggest is going to sound better than what they are used to...ie TV speakers (which are often small, oval and suck ass), PC speakers (which are often small and suck ass), and stock car speakers (which are often oval and suck ass).

The advent of oval speakers came from the unique environment of cars. Narrow dashes and rear decks. There wasn't enough space to fit a large woofer so instead of designing it for a small one they compromised by making it oval. With home speakers you don't have a unique environment, you can make a speaker as large as you want. However, not all home speakers are round. Take a look at your partsexpress catalog and you will see that Tang Band makes oval woofers so that speaker enclosures can be made a little narrower.

But anyway, let me get back to the point...oh yeah CONE AREA!!! I'll look at competition systems...since you told me to. What do I see? multiple subwoofers, dedicated midbass drivers, and smaller midrange and tweeter drivers.

That doesn't sound like a typical setup with a head unit and speakers to me and the competitor is in no dire need for additional bass/midbass from their front speakers. So does it seem right to suggest to a novice car audio person that they should choose smaller drivers for their setup because a compeitor with infinitely more power and cone area does? NO! A 6x8" speaker is 15% larger than an equivalent 6.5" speaker which means it has the capability to produce that much more low end with the same amount of power. A 6x9" speaker is 28% larger making that much more of a difference.

Just as an example, the JL Audio XR570-CXi is rated with a 90.5db sensitivity while the XR650-CXi is only 89.5db. Its a small difference, but i guarantee the difference is bigger than any sonic differences you may claim an oval speaker has. So for the same reason you would choose a 12" subwoofer over a 10" subwoofer, you should be choosing the largest speaker available to you when bass is limited to what a single set of speakers can produce.

If you've got a subwoofer to accent the bass then perhaps you could get by with just using the 6.5" driver and not notice a difference. But then there is the issue of installation. The 6x8" speakers fit right in, there is no need to build a baffle and there is no way to screw up. In most cases, you don't even have to drill new holes. Sure, they sell those plastic adapters but they are flimsy...moreso than your metal door panel. And when things are flimsy, they absorb bass.

However, one place where purchasing round speakers benefits is selection. When it comes to components, there aren't many oval models out there. JL Audio, Infinity, and a few others offer them but in general your selection is limited. That's why I always recommend listening to all 6.5" and 6x8" speakers and when it comes time to make a decision, if the one you like is available in 6x8" you might as well buy them because they are easier to install and you'll get 15% more bass out of them.

So there's my research. Oval = more bass = happy customer.

 

[chuyler1]

Don't ditch the rears but you do want front stage first then rears.
Rule of thumb - Front stage, rear fill.

While we're on the topic of competitors. How many do you see still using rear-fill for stereo setups? Unless they are running 5.1 surround sound they aren't running rear speakers.

The only time I would consider rearfill acceptable is if you had 6x9" openings in the rear while only having smaller openings in the front AND you didn't want to run a subwoofer. In that scenario, you can use the larger rear speakers to fill out the bass. If you are powering them off an external amp then setting the crossover to low-pass would be ideal. If you are running off deck power, then hack them up and cut the tweeter leads or build a passive 6db/octave low-pass crossover.

 

[II-Savy]

You weren't supposed to research, I was saying the guy who started the thread should to make his own conclusions.

The small added bene of a bit large cone with the 5x7(not a 6x8 as you mentioned) still does not make it the best way to go. Going from a 5x7 to a 6 inch is absolutly(sp) an upgrade. Oval speakers have more area and so move more air thus producing more bass. This is important if space is a big issue for you. However, it must be noted that at higher sound levels, these oval speaker drivers are more likely to distort. Fact. When in doubt always go for a round....as you did below. (peep)

Here is the baffle I created for the midbass drivers. The factory openings are for 6x8" speakers. Sorry I don't have a mounted photo.

ALL I am saying is go round when ever you can just as you did with your higher end installs.

The rear fill thing...I was just saying laying out a system you think Front stage first THEN rear fill. Rear fill meaning it not a super important part of the system really. I remember back in the day I had a 1976 civic. I cut 6x9's in the back and I had a Fujitsu 2 shaft in the dash. ALL the sound was in the rear. lol.

 

[chuyler1]

I went with round because a) DLS doesn't offer Iridium speakers in oval and b) I had subwoofers to make up for the lack of bass. There is nothing in the price bracket and quality level of the Iridiums that is available in a 6x8 oval. I covered those two situations in my post. The next step up for me would have been the 8" iridium driver...but that would have required cutting the door.

I will agree with you that when you are talking about audiophile installs, every little bit counts from large guage power wire and gold plated connectors to speaker shape and sensitivity.

But when it comes to budget minimalistic installs, you get more bang for your buck by installing a larger speaker. I've heard the JL's side by side. You really can't tell the difference other than the 6x8"s having a little more meat on the bottom end. I'm sure if you plot the distortion on a graph you would see discrepencies...but at 35mph blaring heavily distorted rock music with the windows open...you will not tell the difference.

That is why I recommend the easy approach for novice installers. My 6x8=>6.5 conversion how-to is pretty straight forward but it requires power tools and time. You can have a pair of 6x8" speakers installed in under an hour vs. the evening I spent just making my baffles. I will recommend it to people who have done that sort of stuff before...but I won't to the beginner. Its simply too overwhelming.

 

[Poseur]

II-Savy>
I would also like to point out, as Chris and I were discussing in another recent topic, there's a fairly recent trend for TRUE audiophile (and I do mean home) drivers out there that are not ACTUALLY round. Many actually use polygonal perimiters, or other forms of radially-alterred design soasto breakup the standing wave on the cone surface. Think of it like having a perfectly round pool and dropping a stone in the middle of it. the waves that head outwards return all at the same time with only marginally reduced amplitude. Put some angled walls on that pool and suddenly the waves are broken up and dissipate as they "reflect" back inwards and help cancel eachother out. As far as when you look at a picture of the drivers themselves, Sure they appear round, but their construction will tell you elsewise.

At anyrate, it's really not even a matter of that much signifigance. The largest reason many switch to round isthat the majority of all nice speakers are crafted in that form factor. But at that, alot of us who've switched to round speakers have alot of other things goingon to counteract the drawbacks of the smaller driver. And quite honestly simplicity isnot a matter of concern. Either way, it's in a freaking car, not a sealed chamber. even when you're parked, I emplore you to sit in one car with converted 6's and one with 5x7's of the same model and tell me you hear a difference. You'll likely favor the sound of the ovals if anything.

Have you personally back and fourth compared otherwise identical-setups? Could you tell us all in detail what the specifics of that scenario were, and more exactly what sounded different?


Also, rear-fill is one of the most overly misused attempts at playing "wait, my setup's alright, right" that you see everywhere. YES it has some merit, but VERY few have the talent, patience and means to execute it properly. (I know I do not)